Well you've just highlighted the problem right there. Wiht no original sources to check, and no outside corroboration from other historians other than Christian sources, we have no way of knowing what Jesus actually said, versus what others "put into his mouth" years later! How then do you separate the man from the myth, even if there was a real man to begin with?
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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25
Jesus—a real, historical person
by Ireneus injesus was a real and historical person (not the way jws or the rest of the people think him to be) because of the following historical facts:.
1) the fact that the most influential political establishment of that time (roman empire) was convinced that jesus’ name would sell to suit their political agenda (to promote slavery) shows that jesus was as historical as roman empire itself; hence they implanted slavery-friendly verses into the bible as though spoken by jesus (such as mathew 5:39, 41; 24:45 ..etc) this was in contrast to the real personality jesus really was—he was a man of courage, who ‘walked alone to do what is right if those invited refused to accompany him.’ when his family and disciples were fond of sleeping, his delight was to spend early morning hours alone, in meditation, with god to the extent he could say he was “one” with qualities of god.
(mark 1:35; john 8:1, 2; 10:30) such a person would naturally be too famous and too crowd-pulling against whom even the influential people were helpless even when they were whipped out of the temple which reminds us of “hollywood rambo style” merely because of his moral authority (not that he had any supernatural powers to perform miracles).. 2) similarly, emerging religion (apostate christianity) too knew they could misuse the name of jesus to serve its commercial agenda.
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JW Christians Are Supposed to be Good, BUT.....
by OnTheWayOut inso, serving "the one true god" and being "in the truth" are supposed to make jw's better people.
they are bringing their "truth" to people and that probably makes them feel that they are good to "worldly" people.but they do it to "get their time in.
" they do it no longer in any life-saving mentality.
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doubtfull1799
I read Jenna's book a few years ago just before I woke up, was quite shocking, but a fascinating read. It got me really interested in reading more about scientology and I started to notice the disturbing similarities - maybe not the violence and bullying, but the similar principles, control and attitude behind it. It was one of the things that eventually led me to leaving...
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Jesus—a real, historical person
by Ireneus injesus was a real and historical person (not the way jws or the rest of the people think him to be) because of the following historical facts:.
1) the fact that the most influential political establishment of that time (roman empire) was convinced that jesus’ name would sell to suit their political agenda (to promote slavery) shows that jesus was as historical as roman empire itself; hence they implanted slavery-friendly verses into the bible as though spoken by jesus (such as mathew 5:39, 41; 24:45 ..etc) this was in contrast to the real personality jesus really was—he was a man of courage, who ‘walked alone to do what is right if those invited refused to accompany him.’ when his family and disciples were fond of sleeping, his delight was to spend early morning hours alone, in meditation, with god to the extent he could say he was “one” with qualities of god.
(mark 1:35; john 8:1, 2; 10:30) such a person would naturally be too famous and too crowd-pulling against whom even the influential people were helpless even when they were whipped out of the temple which reminds us of “hollywood rambo style” merely because of his moral authority (not that he had any supernatural powers to perform miracles).. 2) similarly, emerging religion (apostate christianity) too knew they could misuse the name of jesus to serve its commercial agenda.
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doubtfull1799
Of course I am talking about the "Christian" Jesus, not the many other people actually called Jesus in the first century who were for example reported on by Josephus....
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Jesus—a real, historical person
by Ireneus injesus was a real and historical person (not the way jws or the rest of the people think him to be) because of the following historical facts:.
1) the fact that the most influential political establishment of that time (roman empire) was convinced that jesus’ name would sell to suit their political agenda (to promote slavery) shows that jesus was as historical as roman empire itself; hence they implanted slavery-friendly verses into the bible as though spoken by jesus (such as mathew 5:39, 41; 24:45 ..etc) this was in contrast to the real personality jesus really was—he was a man of courage, who ‘walked alone to do what is right if those invited refused to accompany him.’ when his family and disciples were fond of sleeping, his delight was to spend early morning hours alone, in meditation, with god to the extent he could say he was “one” with qualities of god.
(mark 1:35; john 8:1, 2; 10:30) such a person would naturally be too famous and too crowd-pulling against whom even the influential people were helpless even when they were whipped out of the temple which reminds us of “hollywood rambo style” merely because of his moral authority (not that he had any supernatural powers to perform miracles).. 2) similarly, emerging religion (apostate christianity) too knew they could misuse the name of jesus to serve its commercial agenda.
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doubtfull1799
I'm sorry, but I don't see how either of your two points are demonstrably "historical facts." But even if they were, neither proves that Jesus was an historical person. Just because someone uses a person or identity for their own agenda does not make that person real. You'll have to make a stronger case for your assertion and show why you believe that it follows Jesus was real just because his name was invoked for political reasons.
Richard Carrier & Robert Price make very good scholarly cases that Jesus was probably not an historical character. The weight of evidence seems (to me at least) to favour the mythicist position.
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JEHOVAH - The biggest racist in history!?
by stuckinarut2 inmany people like to boast about “jehovah being loving and impartial toward all”.
there are even scriptures that say words to that effect.. however, if we look at just his actual conduct and actions , and not accept the words supposedly written by his apologetic “bible writers”, the facts tell us something else!.
firstly, he chose one special nation and race of people.
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doubtfull1799
By His fruits you will recognise Him....
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My Personal Atheist Manifesto?
by dubstepped inso, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.
this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.
i love this guy.
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doubtfull1799
Brilliant @dubstepped. Well expressed. Very similar to my own thought process when I left and discovered my own atheism....
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2018-Message From Watchtower Informant!
by Atlantis infrom one of our informants inside the watchtower.
(same person whosent us videos from the legal dept., accounting dept., pioneer school,and so forth.
) atlantis told him that he is walking on a razors edge,to be extremely careful.his email message:1. watch tower has no right to demand you to sign a consent form.
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doubtfull1799
A couple fo us here in Australia have made formal requests to access our data under Australia privacy laws (which are quite similar to what is happening in Europe if not exactly the same) and also the Society's data protection policy as stated on their website.
Please join us and put pressure on them to act lawfully under these new laws as they claim they will.
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Another marriage bites the dust ...
by EdenOne in... and this time it was mine.. mrs. eden decided to part ways and leave home, and so our 25 year long partnership is now dissolving.
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just another colateral damage in a long list of colateral damages from being raised in the "truth".
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doubtfull1799
Very sorry to hear that... I feel for you and the difficult days ahead
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For those who still think the Bible is useful for arriving at any conclusions about life or anything else!
by doubtfull1799 in"both read the bible day & night, but thou read black where i read white.".
- william blake.
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doubtfull1799
"Both read the Bible day & night, but thou read black where I read white."
- William Blake
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Armageddon started...
by mikeflood injust joking i really don't think so...but the situation in syria is pretty worrisome...just hearing the news that france and great britain are attacking with cruise missiles in 72 hours.
i mean assad is not gonna gasify his adversaries when he almost won the civil war.
trump too suspended a very important trip to the latinoamerican presidents summit in peru, just to 'oversee the american response to syria.
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doubtfull1799
Except thats not at all how its supposed to go down! First there is supposed to be the destruction of Babylon the Great starting the great tribulation, then the cry of Peace and security, then the imminent attack on God's people - only then can Armageddon actually start! And somewhere in between all that there is the rapture of the remaining anointed to heaven!!!
JW's who believe that armageddon could start any day don't even understand their own doctrine.