Posts by doubtfull1799

2

The Value Of Offence

by freemindfade in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uejzbx1iu0.

fantastic video by thermain trees, they always do a great job, this one was no exception.

worth the time.

I second that. I love their videos and the informed psychological research that underpins much of their work. I was initially put off a bit by the title, but wow, brilliantly reasoned and so valuable.

15

Facing my own mortality!

by eyeuse2badub in

i’m 71 years old now.

seven decades plus.

but, i put that in perspective owing to the fact that my older brother died in 1992 at the age of only 51. it was a very sobering time for me even though i was only 45 at the time.

doubtfull1799

Good post. Something I struggle with.

I think Pete Zahut makes a good point I hadn't thought about before:

It's a difficult thing to come to grips with ones own mortality all at once rather than doing it gradually over ones lifetime

The constant suppression of our mortality over the years due to our false hope of not having to face it is no doubt not healthy psychologically and makes it that much harder when reality bites!

4

Let's play the "what if" game - a little thought experiment.

by doubtfull1799 in

“if adam and eve hadn’t sinned they would have lived forever and we would all now be still living in paradise” is how watchtower theology goes, right.

(well not us personally, as history would have turned out completely differently and there would be different people on the planet, not us.

when you think about it you owe your very existence to the fact that they didn’t obey.

doubtfull1799

“If Adam and Eve hadn’t sinned they would have lived forever and we would all now be still living in paradise” is how Watchtower theology goes, right.

(Well not us personally, as history would have turned out completely differently and there would be different people on the planet, not us. When you think about it you owe your very existence to the fact that they didn’t obey. If they were faithful you wouldn’t be here to even ponder the point. I, for one, am so happy to be alive, so thank you Adam and Eve!)

OK, so lets take the thought experiment further, what if….

Only Eve sinned and Adam stayed faithful - would God have killed her immediately and given Adam a new wife? Would she also need to pass the same test? Or would Eve be allowed to live and reproduce as she was in the Bible account? Does this mean they would have perfect or imperfect children? Who's genes would override whom? Or would Adam be given another wife to have perfect children with? And Eve another husband? Would there be two races of humans - one perfect and the other with inherited sin, living side by side until the issue was settled?

Adam and Eve both remained faithful - wouldn’t the issue of sovereignty still exist because Satan already raised the challenge? The issue still existed regardless of whether Adam and Eve id the right or the wrong thing. Does that mean at some point some humans would have to try and live without God’s guidance to showcase/test Satan's side of the issue? How could the issue be settled or Satan proved wrong otherwise? Even if Adam and Eve obeyed wouldn’t history have been the same - at some point some humans would have misused their free will and wouldn’t that in fact be necessary to demonstrate the opposite of God rule?

Oh what a tangled theological web we weave in Watchtower's "what if" game…..

23

And now for something you might be able to hear without repulsion

by TerryWalstrom in

i won't give a long preamble other than to say this.

listen and see how you respond.

and now i'm passing it along to get your feedback.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28i3lwxw5xs.

doubtfull1799

Listen to this rant and you'll see what he's all about:

https://youtu.be/EyYdGiJpyXk

"the superordinate principle" - his euphemism for God

"the state isn't salvation, the individual is salvation" - "how difficult that concept is to develop" - "nothing less self-evident than that" - I don't agree (at least I think I don't, its very hard to understand what he's really getting at most of the time.)

His mission is "resurrecting the dormant logos" ???? Yeah, thats clear.

I think he's in love with his own Jungian philosophy and his intellectual personal definitions for things (like God above), and perhaps the sound of his own voice.

He accuses atheists who don't agree with him of being shallow, not being "deep thinkers" - maybe they have thought as deeply as he has, but come to conclusions that are clearer than his.

23

And now for something you might be able to hear without repulsion

by TerryWalstrom in

i won't give a long preamble other than to say this.

listen and see how you respond.

and now i'm passing it along to get your feedback.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28i3lwxw5xs.

doubtfull1799

"Hypertrue" "metatrue" Christ is a "meta hero" Please. "Soul construction" I don't feel my "spirit" was any more "articulated" after to listing to him.This is just more bad philosophy that is trying to say in a very intellectual and complicated way that there must be some higher truth that is not based in the facts of reality. Its just a disguised version of the "you can't have morality without God" argument. There are many ways to determine a moral framework or work out what a person "should" do that don't rely on any esoteric mumbo jumbo - does it cause physical or emotional harm and the veil of ignorance thought experiment are two that come to mind. I checked out another short video of his which was linked titled "the problem with atheism" where he uses the old "if there is no God you can do anything you want" argument. I don't think that puts him in the category of great thinkers. Its just annoying and insulting.

13

The anonymity of Jehovah's Witness material

by stuckinarut2 in

is it vital for credibility to have the name of the writer of an article referenced?.

does this allow for honesty and accountability?

does this assist in ensuring that whatever is presented is as factual as possible, or not biased in some way toward the religion's ideas?.

doubtfull1799

So what Im saying is that by the time the article I wrote actually gets published it has been butchered so much (not just edited) that it may be barely recognisable as my article anymore. Paragraphs here and there may be the same and that is all.

13

The anonymity of Jehovah's Witness material

by stuckinarut2 in

is it vital for credibility to have the name of the writer of an article referenced?.

does this allow for honesty and accountability?

does this assist in ensuring that whatever is presented is as factual as possible, or not biased in some way toward the religion's ideas?.

doubtfull1799

I don't know that it would help with credibility, except to say that knowing the writers and and their lack of qualifications would only destroy any credibility. What is more important is the quality of the sources they are using and wether they are using them correctly. It would certainly add credibility of they cited all their sources etc so they could be checked. But we all know where that leads... we find out how much quote mining they do. If their sources were credible and their understanding and application of those sources was good then that would add credibility.

However it would certainly make a difference to accountability to know who the authors are. As it stands, the anonymity means no one can be pinned down or held accountable for what they write individually. So really the GB is intimately responsible for everything that gets published because they are the final editors. They are accountable, bit of course, as we well know, they refuse to accept that accountability.

My experience in the writing department brings up another issue though. It is very difficult to actually attribute many articles to a single author. Because of the way things are done it is almost like "writing by committee." An article that I would send in would be amended by the branch office and then amended again and perhaps combined with, or have other things added to, that other authors were writing about on the same subject. For any given article they may have a number of brother working on material from different writing departments around the world, and then they combine and mix the material together....

4

100 million year old Australian dinosaur has same skeletal structure as us

by doubtfull1799 in

since leaving the faith i have come to accept the facts and reality of evolution.

and of course i've read much about comparative anatmony and how it helps us to see the links between our common evolutionary ancestors.

however, its another thing to see it live in 3d.

doubtfull1799

Since leaving the faith I have come to accept the facts and reality of evolution. And of course I've read much about comparative anatmony and how it helps us to see the links between our common evolutionary ancestors. However, its another thing to see it live in 3D. It is so obvious when you see a real life model of the skeleton such as this Australian dinosaur.

As you can see in the picture, the limbs are structured exactly like ours with a single bone in the thigh/upper arm, and then two bones forming the lower arms and lower legs, just like we have. You can see the complex system of phalangeal bones forming the feet and hands. You can see the shoulder blade like we have etc. You can even see five fingers, though this dinosaur probably seems to have three fingers that were more prominent than the other two which you can easily see could have led to an opposable thumb and pinkie. The rib cage, the vertebrae, all look very similar to our own.

So if you are still struggling with the idea of evolution may I please encourage you to visit a natural history museum (something I have never done before, this happened to be in our local national museum as a special display) and see the skeletons for yourself and ponder just how similar they are to a modern humans.

10

Eavesdropping on a home Bible Study

by doubtfull1799 in

my mil held a bible study round to our place today and i was home so was interested to listen in from the next room to see what the quality of the study was like.

and whether the new clam meetings are helping jw’s to be better teachers at all.. .

participants:.

doubtfull1799

I like it Steve2, a Tuppaware party indeed - thats exactly what it was....

Thats incredible stuck, shows the true motivation....

10

Eavesdropping on a home Bible Study

by doubtfull1799 in

my mil held a bible study round to our place today and i was home so was interested to listen in from the next room to see what the quality of the study was like.

and whether the new clam meetings are helping jw’s to be better teachers at all.. .

participants:.

doubtfull1799

My MIL held a Bible Study round to our place today and I was home so was interested to listen in from the next room to see what the quality of the study was like. And whether the new CLAM meetings are helping JW’s to be better teachers at all.

Participants:

Conductor 1 (C1) - my 84 year old MIL (who I do love by the way, not trying to pay her out because she’s my MIL)

Conductor 2 (C2)

Student 1 - a lady that has been studying for years and has finished the Bible Teach Book

Student 2 - a new lady just starting her study that is friends of Student 1

Cameo - C2’s young son

Time: 90 mins

Proceedings:

First half hour - coffee and chit chat

Prayer - neither my MIL who was conducting the study or the sister who prayed wore a head covering despite me being in the house. Apparently the headship principle doesn’t apply any more when the man is not going to meetings. Of course that’s not what the official policy is, but who cares right?

10 mins - more general chit chat about how miserable life is, then watched video of children signing kingdom song because…. well isn’t it cute? And don’t we have a wonderful hope? And doesn’t watching children sing make you even more emotional about how all your problems are going to be solved?

10 mins - discussing which book they’re studying and where they’re up to, getting their iPads organised

10 mins - C1 describes her experience growing up Presbyterian and bags them out for never having taught her anything at Sunday school except to learn scriptures - so she decided to study with JW’s along with her parents. She was only 11 years old at the time but apparently this immense life experience already provided her with all the information she needed to know that “NO OTHER religion in the world teaches you how you can be God’s friend, or teach you anything for that matter - they only read scriptures, they don’t explain them.” (Not wanting to defend any religion here, but just maybe the Presbyterians are wise enough to know that children shouldn’t be indoctrinated too much before they are even a teenager and thought Gods’ word could speak for itself)

So were more than 30 mins into the study proper and they finally read the first paragraph. They read first few paragraphs and just share more testimonials. They agree on how hard the Bible is to understand and how miserable life is again. Student 1 goes on about how her Bible study has changed her life (but not to the extent that she can give up smoking apparently - see below)

C1 explains that she is still learning new stuff about the Bible in her 80’s (what exactly? It’s not like they’re teaching anything new at the meeting, so I’m not sure where she is learning this stuff!)

Then they waffle on for another 10 mins about how learning about the Bible doesn’t help with problems, it just helps you cope with them. C1 explains all the trouble in her life and how the Bible helps her cope. This is a woman who pops a valium every day, and freaks out if she doesn’t get them. Medication helps her cope, not God.

After reading paragraph 4 on how people question how a loving god permits suffering the iPad jams and they fuss over that for a while. Then more personal testimonials about how much they cried learning about the reasons for God permitting suffering, then off on a sidetrack as Student 1 expressed their struggle with cigarettes and how they feel like the worst person in the world.

They discussed “how can we be sure that god is not responsible?” Answer: “just trust us, he isn’t, because he says he isn’t.”

Then the study was interrupted because one of the conductors children was dropped off.

General Comments:

Conductors keep explaining what they like abut the scriptures read instead of asking questions to sound out the students understanding.

Students just keep reaffirming how life changing they feel it is learning about the bible (when they haven’t learnt anything yet!) Very little of substance was actually discussed.

Conductors asked student about illustrations used. Student doesn’t get them so conductors read them agains and explains them instead and still have no idea if student gets it.

Student expressed what a mess their life is (JW prey on the vulnerable) and the advice? Keep praying. Though they just discussed earlier that God doesn’t actually do anything to help you.

Other student has been studying for over 3 years and still can’t quit smoking - Is God powerless to help?

So what did the new student learn?

1. People ask questions

2. People have problems (this was what they spent 90% of their time on and I’m sure the student new this before she came)

3. Problems don’t go away just because you pray about them

4. The Bible gives you answers and hope.

5. Gods got a good reason for letting you suffer - just trust us on that one for now, we’ll give you the reason months from now in chapter 11 after you’re sufficiently emotionally invested to accept the reason and not question it.

Don’t worry, be happy!