Posts by doubtfull1799

18

New Light - God chose the Bible students as his org long BEFORE the official inspection in 1919

by doubtfull1799 in

was watching this recently done new history of the society - here it is on youtube if you missed it when it first came out:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv82k1z7n_4&feature=youtu.be.

lots of contradictory and nutty comments - for instance stating one minute that 1914 proved such a faith strengthening event because it fulfilled all their predictions, how encouraged they were, and then a few minutes later claiming the opposite - that many were disappointed and shocked because their expectations were not met!.

doubtfull1799

Good point @jwleaks - I'd forgotten that quote. Seems it was not new light after all, just old light recycled again!!!

18

New Light - God chose the Bible students as his org long BEFORE the official inspection in 1919

by doubtfull1799 in

was watching this recently done new history of the society - here it is on youtube if you missed it when it first came out:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv82k1z7n_4&feature=youtu.be.

lots of contradictory and nutty comments - for instance stating one minute that 1914 proved such a faith strengthening event because it fulfilled all their predictions, how encouraged they were, and then a few minutes later claiming the opposite - that many were disappointed and shocked because their expectations were not met!.

doubtfull1799

Was watching this recently done new history of the society - here it is on youtube if you missed it when it first came out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV82K1z7N_4&feature=youtu.be

Lots of contradictory and nutty comments - for instance stating one minute that 1914 proved such a faith strengthening event because it fulfilled all their predictions, how encouraged they were, and then a few minutes later claiming the opposite - that many were disappointed and shocked because their expectations were not met!

Then came across this stunning claim, which was emphasised twice:

Around the 48min mark David Splane says (in the context of what would happen to the Bible students after the disappointment of 1914 and Russell's death in 1916): "It is evident that Jehovah had already chosen this organisation. (interesting how he calls it an "organisation" when earlier they claimed that it wasn't one, that Russell did not start a "new religious organisation" as there were too many already!) Because of the faithfulness and the sincerity of the men who were behind it, it is was obvious that Jehovah had already chosen this organisation to get his work done."

So where does that leave the 1919 doctrine? The doctrine that Jesus inspected ALL Christians then, and chose the Bible students then? According to Splane, Jesus/God had already made their decision long before the official inspection in 1919, and that decision was based, not on the quality of the spiritual food, but on the "sincerity" of the men?????

If you are interested in and have not had a chance to examine the early history of the adventists movements that influenced Russell, I highly recommend this summary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_c-PdT0SsE

It highlights how absurd and arrogant it is to claim that one particular group of millennialists was somehow "unique," "special," "different," or more "faithful & sincere" in order for it to be chosen by God above all others.....

40

How Are Ex Elders Treated In The Congregation?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are they pretty much left alone?

are they respected for their having been elders at one time?

are they treated like crap?.

doubtfull1799

I can tell you from my own experience that Heb 6:10 does not apply, it goes out the window as fast as you leave. You are considered dangerous, toxic, poisonous, whatever...

Except for one elder who still treats me like a friend, the others don't speak to me anymore unless they happen to run into me on the street. I did have a recent visit from two of them but that was to "investigate" reports of things I had posted online.

I have received a couple of invites to things from regular brothers or sisters that still seem to think fondly of me (usually through my wife who still goes to meetings). NO invites from my fellow elders for over 18 months now. I have asked my wife to invite them over, but no.

8

The Golden rule (Matt 7:12) - Do JW's apply it?

by doubtfull1799 in

there is no doubt (in my mind at least from my own personal experience) that in day to day matters most witnesses are genuinely loving and kind (or "nice") people (though their indoctrination and fundamentalist mentality often inhibits their natural kindness and tolerance and often gets in the way of fulling showing it).

however i would like to put the case that when it comes to their ministry and theological/scientific discussion of any type, they fail to apply even the most basic of bible principles that they claim to espouse - the golden rule!

here is what occurred to me.... some things jw's would like men to do to them:.

doubtfull1799

There is no doubt (in my mind at least from my own personal experience) that in day to day matters most witnesses are genuinely loving and kind (or "nice") people (though their indoctrination and fundamentalist mentality often inhibits their natural kindness and tolerance and often gets in the way of fulling showing it). However I would like to put the case that when it comes to their ministry and theological/scientific discussion of any type, they fail to apply even the most basic of Bible principles that they claim to espouse - the Golden Rule! Here is what occurred to me...

Some things JW's would like men to do to them:

1. Listen politely & respectfully while they "share" their religious convictions.

2. Open their minds to the "evidence" they offer for their convictions.

3. Accept the negative "criticisms" levelled at their current belief system as evidence of their genuine concern for their spiritual welfare.

Now the question is, do JW's ever abide by the admonition, "you also must do to them" when ex-JW's "share" facts, offer "evidence," or "critique" their beliefs? Will they offer the same respectful and open minded "listening ear" that they expect from people of other faiths and atheist etc?

Thoughts?

25

My Story

by Lee Elder in

this is the first of a multi-part article that tells my story, and how ajwrb got started.. https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/saving-thousand-lives-year-reform-watchtowers-policy-blood-transfusions-part-one/.

doubtfull1799

Great to hear your story Lee. Looking forward to part two - please let us know when it is up. I enjoyed looking at your site last year when I was doing research. Its very interesting to hear how it all came about.

35

Either God’s non-existence or His majesty

by venus in

in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.

when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.

when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.

doubtfull1799

A very interesting summary venus - thanks for putting that together.

14

"Prayer" and answers to it , positive / negative ,or is it all in the mind ?

by smiddy3 in

speaking from my own experience and that of my family of wife and two now adult sons do not believe that prayers to jehovah /god are answered .. so it must also be true of all other religions and their believers also.. my wife and i were jw`s for 33 years and and i don`t believe anyone prayed harder than my wife and i at various trials we faced during those times in those 33 years.. we may as well have been like the present day jews who pray to a brick wall .

doubtfull1799

If God exists then prayer is nothing more than a broken promise.

Jesus promised a number of times in John (16:23,14:14, 11:22 etc) that whatever we ask for would be granted.

There was no fine print attached to those guarantees, no provisos etc, just a promise that has gone unfulfilled millions of times no doubt....

22

The Bible a wierd book.

by James Mixon in

some events in the bible can be questionable but there are some stories the rings of truth, and why do i say that because they are so descriptive.

judges 3:22 "ehud an israelite judge, goes to the king of the moabites to pay annual tribute.

instead, he pulls out a dagger and stabs the sh--t out of the king while he is bathing, he literal caused the sh--t to flow and the dagger disappeared in the folds of the king's skin.

doubtfull1799

Robert M Price in his book, "Holy Fable: The Old Testament Undistorted boy Faith," gives a good explanation for this weird name business.

Being just mythical stories, the names were not literal names of real persons (after all what parents would call their kid a name meaning "stupid or senseless" (Nabal)? They were descriptive names given to obviously fictional people showing the role the particular character has in the story or narrative....

Highly recommend Roberts book for a much more expert explanation and many other examples.

7

Todays Text - Classic example of how to twist scripture to your own ends

by doubtfull1799 in

you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “abba, father!”—rom.

those who have received this special invitation from god do not need another witness from any other source.

they do not need someone else to verify what has happened to them.

doubtfull1799

You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”—Rom. 8:15.

Those who have received this special invitation from God do not need another witness from any other source. They do not need someone else to verify what has happened to them. Jehovah leaves no doubt whatsoever in their minds and hearts. The apostle John tells such anointed Christians: “You have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge.” He further states: “As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.” (1 John 2:20, 27) These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else. But they do not need anyone to validate their anointing. The most powerful force in the universe has given them this conviction! w16.01 3:9, 10

If you actually accept what the verse plainly says then it logically follows that all anointed ones don't need to be taught by a select group called the GB. But that of course is not acceptable, so they completely deny that and make up their own interpretation that in no way can possibly be construed from the actual text! IT says their anointed will teach them ALL things, not just the validity of their anointing....

6

Watchtower Society of Australia Financial reports to Charity Commission.

by doubtfull1799 in

screen capture from the watchtower society of australia's article's of association:.

i wonder how item (e) is defined and whether they actually provide any money for charitable poverty relief?

if so, i would love to see the evidence.

doubtfull1799

Screen capture from the Watchtower Society of Australia's Article's of Association:

I wonder how item (e) is defined and whether they actually provide any money for charitable poverty relief? If so, I would love to see the evidence. If not, and they never have, why is this point included in their mission statement? How does one even find out?

I notice in their yearly audited financial reports that they list millions of dollars in "overseas aid" in their outgoings. Does this actually go to charitable aid, or is this just a euphemism for donations forwarded to head office for the WWW? I presume the latter, but I'm not experienced in reading and interpreting financial statements.... this is the website if anyone knows how to read these documents better than I do:

https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1