Posts by konceptual99

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

Whilst I can imagine some having a snigger at the cheesyness of it all so many people are desperate to buy into the whole persecution and chaos drama of the big A. Cofty's thread on angst has nailed it.

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

BTW wifibandit and source - thanks very much!

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

If everyone downsizes to an apartment who is going to have a basement to hide out in?

55

Here's a view on homosexuality for you...

by konceptual99 in

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.

all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.

homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.

konceptual99

I strongly disagree. WT has continued to be compassionate, merciful, understanding, tolerant towards homosexual sinners, never hate or repulsion or rejection -always compassion mercy and understanding for the sinner but not the sin. That is something that I have learned from wt which has made me a better person.

I will concede two points. Firstly, the humanist views presented by Jesus can help engender tolerance, mercy and so on. Assuming those qualities are the preserve of Christians is a different matter of course. Secondly, the WT is generally fairly tame in it's public condemnation of homosexuality and does leave the door open technically for gay people to be accepted in the congregation. The latest Awake article is a case in point.

I will also concede that some Witnesses are about as tolerant as one can be in the constraints of the doctrine. I know I was (as if that's any kind of badge of honour) and I know others with similar viewpoints. This is the exception not the rule.

The reality of what individual Witnesses think on the ground is often far more polarised than the public rhetoric would indicate. Unfortunately not all the content I originally posted has made it through Simon's moderation. I won't try and post the whole thing again but here is a little bit more that is of interest:

If homosexuality is about love, then why can't a homosexual ever feel enough love for someone of the opposite sex? By that same token, is a straight man's love or affection for another man limited because the straight man is NOT attracted sexually to the other man? Does that really make sense? No, it's clear that homosexuality is about attraction, desire, and so forth. It's not about love.

This is a clear refusal to accept that it possible to equate homosexual and hetrosexual relationships. The poster also states "the act itself is against nature and will always be prohibited". There is zero tolerance here. Time and time again I continue to see Witnesses allowing revulsion to homosexuality affect their view of homosexuals in a way that rarely is replicated with hetrosexual immoral acts. In this poster's opinion homosexuality is as unnatural as bestiality and it's very hard to separate the act and the person when conditioned to have a physical revulsion.

55

Here's a view on homosexuality for you...

by konceptual99 in

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.

all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.

homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.

konceptual99

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality

All you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done. Homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication. Actually, the Bible describes homosexuality as a greater sin than adultery or fornication. The reasoning is that the desire for same-sex intercourse is one "contrary to nature" according to Romans 1:24. At least with heterosexual fornication the wrong doers are acting in harmony with the natural desire for the opposite sex.

I'm sorry to post direct cut'n'paste but I think it's important for people to see the thinking that "mature Christians" continue to have regarding homosexuality. It's probably not news to many but does demonstrate that ones continue to treat homosexuality as different to other sins and how blurred the lines around hating the sin and not the sinner really are.

22

May 2, 2016 Re: Entrance Time at Regional Conventions

by wifibandit in

may 2, 2016 to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: entrance time at regional conventions.

konceptual99

What a shame. On my old stints as an attendant I used to love seeing the lame leaping like deer, the old regaining their youthful vigour, walking sticks being cast aside or used as weapons and young children being sent like mini soldiers to duck and dive their way to the best seats.

It was like the New Order.

15

What would happen if...

by StarTrekAngel in

in an effort to excuse yourself from elder persecution, you present an argument.

whether at a jc or just in an average elder shepherding call.

most people who have confronted a jc, have tried to explain to the elders about what they know of the org but the incriminating questions always come up.. when confronted with the question, do you still believe the gb is the f&ds?

konceptual99

My two penneth...

1) trying to present an argument offering views different to the party line is almost certain to get you DF'ed

2) I would handle the loyalty question this way:

Firstly, just say that's a needless question. Reiterate you just have doubts and that's all. Secondly you can always refer back to a choice part of Jackson's answer to the ARC.

That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.

They will not look it up there and then. Theocratic warfare works both ways.

Having said that, it's still a sticky wicket.

3) the best way of preventing a DFing is to keep your mouth shut as much as possible. Fade away quietly rather than going in a blaze of glory. Don't be controversial. Don't give elders any cause to consider you an apostate threat. Deflect visits.

Ultimately the less you say to elders the better.

234

New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org

by ttdtt in

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.

disgusting!.

konceptual99

AS for tolerating celibate JWs, forget it... they're already on record as having said it's unacceptable, citing "that's what some of you WERE" ... 1 Cor. 6:9

If you mean two people living together in a celibate relationship then I would agree this would not be acceptable.

If you mean they don't tolerate single, celibate gay JWs the answer is that they do. Bethel is allegedly full of young men suppressing their natural desires . Quite why anyone who is gay would want to be a Witness is beyond me but no one has to sign a bit of paper when they get baptised to say they no longer have gay thoughts and want to be hetrosexual. In fact the latest Awake makes this clear....

In saying “that is what some of you were,” does the Bible mean that those who stopped engaging in homosexual acts never again experienced any homosexual desires? That could hardly be the case, because the Bible also exhorts: “Keep walking by spirit and you will carry out no fleshly desire.”—Galatians 5:16.
Note that the Bible does not say that a Christian will never experience an improper desire. Rather, it says that he or she will choose not to carry out that desire. Christians learn to bring such desires under control, not dwelling on them to the point of acting on them.—James 1:14, 15. [6]
The Bible thus makes a distinction between inclinations and practices. (Romans 7:16-25) A person who has homosexual leanings can control what he allows his mind to dwell on, just as he would control any other wrong desire, including leanings toward anger, adultery, and greed.—1 Corinthians 9:27; 2 Peter 2:14, 15.

15

When will they start spying on tablets/iPads at meetings?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

following on from a similar post, the use of tablets/ipads at the meetings is a life saver to many a bored or mentally out jw.

i'm sure the borg must know the potential for surfing the net or reading other books instead of reading the meeting material during the meeting?.

at what point are they going to start policing this?

konceptual99

They may do a standard issue router for the KH with traffic logging enabled which would permit traffic to be analysed but there are privacy issues here. I don't think they can be bothered plus one is already taking a big risk by surfing to apostate sites whilst in the hall.

234

New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org

by ttdtt in

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.

disgusting!.

konceptual99

The latest Awake details the organisations view on homosexuality.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no4-2016-august/bible-say-about-being-gay/

It repeats several previously stated viewpoints, most of which are pretty easy to understand and follow the WTS reasoning on. Compared to some of the statements you would hear from fire and brimstone preachers, the WTS position is fairly tame on the surface.

I note they continue to be fairly ambiguous position on the homosexuality and biology. Whilst they have become open to the science on this over the years, they continue to equate human sexuality to personality traits such as anger. Even if sort of acknowledging homosexuality can be "deeply ingrained" they assume that it is possible and normal to put that to one side and suppress one's sexuality just as one would try and control one's temper.

Like the video, this is hard to categorise as out and out hate speech or homophobic in the sense that it conveys no "fear" of homosexuals or total non-acceptance of gay people. If you are gay you can be a JW just so long as you do not have any sex.

It is pretty much exactly how I presented the position for years when I was in. I used to work in a UK town with a very high proportion of gay residents and I worked for many years with many gay people. Because of this and my generally younger, more liberally minded attitudes I never had a problem with this and believed the stance on homosexuality was pretty reasonable.

Of course, the hidden messages are not quite so tolerant and this is where the problems occur. For a start, there is still a culture within the organisation that considers homosexuality to be a more despicable sin than other forms of hetrosexual (mis)conduct. People still feel free to come out with some highly aggressive vitriol about gay people going far beyond the position presented publicly. Individuals still have a genuine aversion to gay people, especially if confronted with someone who is loud and proud about their sexuality.

Of course the Witnesses cannot present anything that truly reflects an open, tolerant and modern attitude to homosexuality - their view of the Bible prevents this from ever happening. This is not news in itself but anything that helps people ask about the hidden messages, consider the logical conclusions of following lines of thinking through and question the rhetoric is welcome in my book.