Posts by konceptual99

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

konceptual99

VG - it is true that hypothesis lacks the verifiable evidence but ultimately a sound theory will be evidence based. Would I have faith (trust) in a hypothesis? I may possibly find the notion plausable however faith (or trust or acceptance) in it's veracity would only come once sufficient evidence had been collated and verified.

I certainly wouldn't have confidence in the ability of an aeroplane to fly if the science around powered flight was purely hypothesis.

As expressed by other posters, there is also a big difference in how science views stated positions on a matter than how religion tends to.

We all, especially the less scientifically knowledgable we are, place confidence in some things without knowing the full detail (the example of flight once again). That is not the same as religious faith. It is easy to find the information as to exactly why a plane flies. The same cannot be said for pretty much anything I had deep faith in as a Jehovah's Witness.

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

konceptual99

"Faith" in one's friends and family is trust based on experience. Funnily enough the amount of trust one has in their family depends very much on the relationship one has with their family. It's not blind faith.

"Faith" in the ability of an aeroplane to safely fly 11 hours is trust based on the knowledge that science and engineering have been able to develop technology that takes advantage of an understanding of the natural laws that govern the physical world. It's not blind faith.

JWs would argue that faith in the interpretation of the Bible as presented the WTS is not blind faith. They would argue that it is trust built up on experience. The issue is that if you are talking about the modern day claims of the WTS then you cannot name one thing they have got right, especially in advance of the event. If you use the Bible to validate your claims then it is impossible to prove. For example, claiming trust in the prophecies that humans will be resurrected because Jesus resurrected people is not trust based on experience. It's trust based on an unprovable claim made 2000 years ago.

As a Witness I made the claim many times that the Bible basically had special dispensation on this matter. Somehow, the more claims I believed the more the evidence stacked up. All it really is, however, is a fallacy. Being able to demonstrate many self referencing claims of authority does not increase the level of verifiable evidence.

It WT world, however, the more you accept the fallacy, the more you claim to have this type of bogus faith, then the better Witness you are. It's then a small jump to having to demonstrate the depth of your faith through the level of the your JW approved works.

Trust (faith if you wish) based on fallacy is dangerous regardless of who peddles the fallacy.

115

Survey---who is inactive, disfellowshipped/disassociated or active?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i am inactive for about 10 years now..

konceptual99

Nominally active. Mentally out and working on getting the family out.

4

Pensioner jailed for sex assault on 12-year-old Crawley girl he met through Jehovah's Witness church - UK

by Sol Reform in

http://www.crawleynews.co.uk/pensioner-jailed-sex-assault-12-year-old-girl-met/story-21159650-detail/story.html.

pensioner jailed for sex assault on 12-year-old crawley girl he met through jehovah's witness church.

by cballinger | posted: may 29, 2014. jailed: oliver connor has been sentenced for a historic sex assault on a crawley girl.

konceptual99

This is local to me so I will try and find out more...

17

Best Fish and Chips

by FL_Panthers in

so far i've had the pleasure of trying chips in victoria park village, falkners on kingsland rd, olley's in herne hill and that place in richmond which is full of oap (good sign?).

.

any other recommendations?

konceptual99

Brighton. By the sea. Only place to have proper fish and chips.

13

The great British Weather

by FL_Panthers in

anyone else getting a bit tired of being wetted upon?.

i've sort of had enough already, suede shoes in the rain is not not a good idea.. .

on the plus side, it's fun for fish .

konceptual99

Shut up about our weather. If you don't like it just feck off. ;-)

7

Beer, Ale and Stout Appreciation

by FL_Panthers in

jw
friends

yesterday i was trying out the hobgoblin from the wychwood brewery, and today i'm enjoying a cold bishops finger.. .

both are excellent, but i am a bit fond now of the hobgoblin ruby beer.

any other recommendations?

konceptual99

You are still at the milk of the word level. you need real traning to understand and appreciate solid food (ale).

74

Convicted paedophile allowed to grill his victims at Jehovah's Witness meeting

by Sapphy in

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-paedophile-jonathan-rose-grilled-7151197.

oh my goodness, i'm so angry i can't even speak!

"women who complained that former jehovahs witness elder jonathan rose, 40, had molested them as children relived their nightmares in front of him after he was released from jail".

konceptual99

And again we come to this confusion between Law Enforcement and Spiritual Counseling. It is not the job of elders to protect lay members from each other. They are not policemen, they are only spiritual counselors. The rules of proper 'case management' that apply to police do not apply to Witnesses. The rules of Law also do not apply to their Judicial meetings, because Law itself (real Law anyways) only deals with property rights and reparations for damages. The Witnesses are private parties engaging in voluntary discussion -- no property is damaged, no rights are violated and no force is used. They can and should be able to do as they wish so long as these conditions are satisfied.

No! Please re-read my post. I concede that the congregation can do what they like. I understand your point that the rule of law does not have to apply. I agree there is no compulsion to follow the practices employed by the law enforcement agencies and the judicary.

In principle I agree that the elders are not police, are just spiritual counsellers and if that is how the WTS allowed the congregation to operate then I would accept more readily your latter points. The problem is that the elders do end up operting like police. Most Witnesses operate with free will bounded not just by bibilical principles but by the rules and regulations of the WTS, enforced by the elders. There is implicit control but the WTS wants it both ways. They want outsiders to take your viewpoint however the way the congregation is run gives the BOE far more influence over their flock than your description implies.

WT Legal pulls the strings. The elders dance to their tune in matters like this. Oh that it were really voluntary - whatever the context and agenda of the women concerned, the only way they could see that individual considered for disfellowshipping is to do exactly what the BOE (in reality WT Legal in Mill Hill) told them to do. There would have been no negotiation, no compromise.

You can argue that this is the right of the WTS and I, as a liberally minded individual, agree with the principle however there is a growing body of best practice and exprtise on handling these types of cases that the WTS seems hell bent on ignoring. JUst becuase they don't have to follow legal process does not mean they cannot adopt methodologies that should better suppot both the accused and victim.

31

Would blood mgmt improvements have been made without firm stand of JW's

by berrygerry in

http://o.canada.com/news/national/blood-transfusions.

thoughts?.

konceptual99

oh whoopy doo. The medical profession should be swarming to Brooklyn to kiss the collective GB arse in ever so grateful thanks for helping them advance medical science. Never mind the countless deaths, the endess list of those that did not die but had to go through hell trying to explain the inconsitent, the continuous change and illogical reasoning on fractions, cell savers, procedures, components and the like.

The WTS did not make a so called stand on blood for the benefit of medical health. They did it to stand out, be different and in the process ruined the lives of thousands of people. They should be pilloried, not held up as bastions of free speech and saviours of modern medical science.

28

"The end will come when you least expect it"

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, so didnt jesus supposedly say "the end will come when you least expect it"?

(or words to that effect...).

so, with so many witnesses running around in an excited way talking about "100 years since the kingdom...etc" and "it may be our last chance to pioneer etc"..."may be the last international conventions".....doesnt this mean then that the end can not come now??!!.

konceptual99

ffs, even me, the world's worst fader, has worked out it's all just bollocks. I can't even be bothered to point out the utter madness of it all any more. They can all do what the feck they like, I just don't care anymore...