This is really more a general comment on numbers rather than baptisms. I feel this recent trend for harsh doctrine has caused the WTS to shoot themselves in the foot. It was done to scare people into remaining active but if they had half a brain cell they would have read the writing on the wall and done things the other way. What I'm trying to say is I wonder if this decline could force a backpedal to more lenient thinking under the banner of ' new light" eg to include inactive ones to 'encourage' them back in. Less DFsing and quicker reinstatement these are their best hope on this sinking ship. It would be a very different tack but also a very quick way of boosting numbers. What do others think?
SummerAngel
JoinedPosts by SummerAngel
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Baptism statistics from CO
by neat blue dog injust went to the assembly yesterday and during the final talk the circuit overseer said:.
'sure, there are some adults baptised here and there, but do you want to know something wonderful?
the vast majority of those getting baptized are teens and preteens!
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youngest baptised.
by zeb inwhat is the youngest you have seen someone baptised?
i recall seeing a 9 yo girl baptised..
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SummerAngel
I've noticed a few posts on this site comparing the WT trend of young baptism to the practice of church infant baptism. There is absolutely no comparison. Most churches these days baptise older teens or adults not infants for a start. There is no compulsion to be baptised and once bapped no contract to attend or consequences of breaking rules - there are no rules to break as such. It is simply a show of faith and expression that you are serious about your belief.
As an adult, you may meet a few times with the minister to ensure you understand the step you are taking. On the day you would have the chance to give your testimony and have prayer. There is celebration afterwards whatever the age it isn't a dreadful sombre occasion like in JWs.
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youngest baptised.
by zeb inwhat is the youngest you have seen someone baptised?
i recall seeing a 9 yo girl baptised..
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SummerAngel
I am stunned that social Services rant more involved with me practices like this. The implications of what you sign up to are huge. Surely shunning a minor is psychological and emotional abuse
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An honest question for those who were "born-in"
by stuckinarut2 injust wanted to ask a question of those who were born in as i was.. how did you feel to have been "privileged to have been born into the only true faith - the truth"?.
did this make you feel confident, or proud - or perhaps arrogant?.
how did you reconcile the fact that 99% of the earth's population was not born "into the truth"?.
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SummerAngel
Hi stuck, maybe this is a generational thing but I hated it. My situation was I was born in my patents had been in 1 since childhood the other as a young man. I left approx 30 yrs ago. Family still in. I absolutely don't relate to feeling fortunate or privileged in any way.I felt special all right but in a dreadful why do I have to be saddled with this kinda way. I always had doubts, could never see whole end of world thing happening and always aired to uni from a young age. I recon I tumbled it by about the age of 7 as in TTINTT. Hated every aspect door toor nonsense no one was ever interested. The meeting were iccessantly boring and the only good thing about assembles was volunteering to get out of sitting through the sessions. Also the isolation, bullying and rejection I had for not being able to be part in any of the usual community activities - Xmas and birthday parties but also after school clubs or just school fetes.since leaving and having my own kids I realise how isolating and bizarre my childhood was. For those who didn't grow up in it imagine only mixing with people of identical belief and the same sex as you. Remove all festivals major and minor, all community based activities, all mythological beings, take out all tv, books, toys and clothes with varies, witches, unicorns, superheroes, magic fighting or competitiveness. Never give or receive a greetings card or wrapped present. Give up any hope of pursuing a career of your choice. Oh and don't say " bless you" or ' good luck' to anyone.
The reason I ask if its a generational thing is the modern JWs are far more aggressive and arrogant about their beliefs. The kids are taught to tell other kids they won't play with them as they arnt JWs. The shunning is far more aggressive and the whole thing has a really nasty overtone. Any vestige of Christianity is long gone. I feel sorry for kids growing up in this now.
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SummerAngel
For any lurkers misguided out there the shunning has no biblical basis whatsoever. Ask them to show you a single instance in the bible where Jesus ever disfellowshipped anyone. Those who were repentant were forgiven instantly. Did Jesus say sit at the back for 6 months then you can rejoin the club no forgiveness was instant and rejoicing then happened. The prodigal son is far more about forgiveness then repentance and was instant and constant. The argument about cleansing the congregation falls down because more often than not those daft enough to confess are already feeling guilty or care confessing historical stuff so the argument put by one of the posters earlier is utterly meaningless. For example I know someone that had been living with their boyfriend when out of JW, they felt guilty wanted to come back, moved out planned to marry typical periodical son scenario was there much rejoicing and forgivenes. Are you kidding this is WTS it's sit at the back for a year and think about the error of your ways.
Can I also Chuck in when did Jesus give any other human the power to forgive sins. Could this be another nod to JWs Catholic roots??
They hold this ridiculous view that if if we don't Dis then everyone will run riot but the irony is because they encourage people to mindlessly obey rules rather than develop their immoral compass JWs are frequently less principled, and nastier than those outside it, this is further fuelled by the attitude if you ain't in it you don't matter so they can feel they have no moral obligations to outsiders.
Incidentally I do think WTS have missed a trick because with numbers dropping and so many trying to leave they should loosen not tighten the controls. For example if instead of counting as Dissed those who disappeared long ago or the inactive if they put these into their numbers they could artificially show an increase.
Sorry about 5 other posts here in this
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Will YOU Ever Leave The Watchtower Org.?
by minimus inthere is usually a metamorphosis that takes place for a person to leave the jehovah's witness religion.
most people do not just up and go simply because they realize this could not be the truth.
it often takes time.. for those that go to meetings or engage in the ministry, will you forever continue doing these things, knowing that it is all bs?
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SummerAngel
Just wanted to add to my post as I think perhaps my sentiment was misunderstood. I don't underlay the enormity and complexity of leaving this vile controlling cult. After 30 yrs out and it was easier back then I also managed to avoid baptism which was fortunate, I still have a ton of residual damage. I don't do formal or anything that screams control. I hate rules and socially I'm still on the outside. My point was about ascribed power and a speculative what would happen if. A wishful thinking if you will reflecting on what if all this negative feeling could be mobilised into action. I personally would love to see this organization that traps my family and keeps many of them from me brought to its knees.
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1 John 5:13-20 Jesus is the true God?
by NikL inone of the main things i am trying to wrap my head around after waking up to the nonsense of jw.org is the deity of christ.. jws go out of their way to ignore him, it seems to me.
they make him out to be an angel or something.
yet, if one simply reads the scriptures, you get an entirely different picture.. doing some bible reading this morning i accidentally (long story) read the latter part of 1 john 5 and it's good stuff.. after reading it in the niv i read it in nwt and it is still pretty amazing even in that abomination of a translation.. it says.... 13 i write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the son of god.
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SummerAngel
This isn't a debate about the logic of belief, this post starts with the assumption of that, it is about accuracy of translation something desperately lacking in WTS publications. Tor_ thank you for backing up my point.
When I talk about spiritual knots you need to differentiate between those things we struggle to rationalize or seem beyond logic like trinity, miracles, etc that's why it's called faith not science, and the WT take on events. The altering of what is written, the constant interpretations, rehash,etc of Revelation,the constant number games, endless end time speculation.
You forget I'm in the usual position of having spent considerable time in both camps. Most JWs and ex JWs frankly talk outta their a@*e when they talk about Christian beliefs because they only know the jaded WT view. I've sat in many services a cross 27 yrs and at no time has there been any whisper of 1914, stupid illogical calculations or miserable attempts to a portion Revelation to modern-day governments. I sat through this nonsense for the first 22 years of my life.
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Seeking Riches That Are True
by NJ501 inyour thoughts on today's watchtower?.
can you explain?.
how can material possessions be used to strengthen our friendship with god?
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SummerAngel
Here's a thought if you have a desperate urge to give away your hard earned cash give it to a reputable charity and see if God loves you any less.
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has any one had this feeling
by Akid48 ini remember having this feeling when i was younger that something was off when it came to meetings and the people there seemed just off.i had feelings like that when i was like 5 or 6 and i would say i was kinda dumb back then but still i had a feeling like that when i would not have that often.still to this day i dont know what got me to have that feeling i was just wanting to know if any had this feeling to and still cant remember what made your mind give you a red flag..
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SummerAngel
Hi akid it's funny you ask this as I thought I was the only one to experience this as a child. I left 30 years ago.I was born in most family still in. As far back as I was old enough to consciously think so 5 or 6 dev by 7 I felt it didn't add up or as they say now 'something was off. I couldn't quantify this assumed it was me , feeling wouldn't go away just nagged and nagged. Incidentally I was there in 1974 at Twickenham Assembly in uk when the end of the world in 1975 was announced from the platform, so don't ever let anyone tell you it was just minions getting over keen it was announced. I never quite bought into it, I should have been keen for the new system but I wasn't.
It wasn't just the above the samefeeling continued into my teens I grew to hate it, it was like this millstone, I thought why me why can't I be like everyone else. I guess what I would call this feeling now is cognitive dissonant but didn't know that word then. I'm sure this is why I never got baptised.
This is your gut feeling, real truth doesn't feel the same. Real truth is like a still small voice of calm, it is a settled feeling and deep down knowledge that something is right, learn to discern the difference between the 2 in a world charlatans and loud voices your gut instinct is the best guide you have. If you retain a belief then your salvation is the most I important decision you will ever make think carefully who you put your trust in. Good luck.
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Will YOU Ever Leave The Watchtower Org.?
by minimus inthere is usually a metamorphosis that takes place for a person to leave the jehovah's witness religion.
most people do not just up and go simply because they realize this could not be the truth.
it often takes time.. for those that go to meetings or engage in the ministry, will you forever continue doing these things, knowing that it is all bs?
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SummerAngel
If everyone who wanted to leave did ie most of those on this site and many others it would be mutiny by numbers and the whole thing would probably collapse. If this happened shunning would go out the window
I do struggle with understanding how and why anyone wouldremain in something they are so clearly against why live a lie I couldn't that's why I left 30 yrs back and having regretted a day or it.
Be brave you owe it to yourself to be true to your heart.