i've seen him referred to as both on this forum.. did he sincerely believe that he was an inspired prophet whose end-time predictions and biblical interpretations came from god?
or was he just a shrewd businessman who saw a market of disillusioned christians who believed that armageddon was imminent that he could exploit?.
i personally lean toward the latter.. .
i think he sincerely believed what he taught. But after 1914 I am certain he finally felt the cold reality smack him in the face the same way Barbour did back in 1878, but by that time it was too late.
It seems after 1914 till his death in 1916, CTR really had nothing much to say about anything. After he dies Rutherford turned the religion on its head.
CTR must have realized he was a false prophet
i am having a discussion at work with the jw's.
should you spank a child to make them understand or do you reason with them.
they both agree with spanking.
ecan6
Terry
and that is why this is still such a debate. ALL KIDS ARE DIFFERENT. Good for you ecan6 for recognizing your dad's discipline for what it was. It obviously was a direct response to bad behaviour and not abuse or "laziness" by your father.
Terry, wonderful to see sincere love for your children and for your childfren to be so moved by it that it was all that was needed to correct their behaviours.
perhaps ecan6 would have viewed your tears differently than your kids and stronger discipline would have been necessary for HIM were he your child. No one can say for sure, but we all know families with good kids and problem kids. I would assume both are raised in the same manner yet one may still need strong discipline while others need only a look from a parent to be enough.
all kids are different. Unfortuntaley sometimes a quick pat on the bum (and never in anger or with aggression) is the one thing that will get a wild young boys attention.
i am having a discussion at work with the jw's.
should you spank a child to make them understand or do you reason with them.
they both agree with spanking.
ecan6
and that is why this is such a debate. Both you and Terry make excellent points. ALL KIDS ARE DIFFERENT.
i am having a discussion at work with the jw's.
should you spank a child to make them understand or do you reason with them.
they both agree with spanking.
------- If your boss spanked you whenever you did not do as he said you would call the police. --------
i can't fire my kids. These are two completely different situations. Until I had my own kids I could never understand this debate. I now fully understand it. that's all I am going to say
idk if waking up has been good for me.
i still have almost no friends.
im still waiting to graduate this december to qualify n b certified for my job.
I take it you feel no obligation to confess personal failings to the elders? Do you have any friends outside the Witnesses?
correct and yes
I have absolutely zero obligation to share anything I do or feel with elders, they are just people like everyone else. I either like them or I don't, not as elders, but as humans.
I actually have a few elder friends that feel much the same way I do and I have shared my thoughts with them about the WTS. It's VERY liberating to find ones in higher ranking positions that also see the WTS for what it is but use it to better their lives anyway. It can take years for these ones to "feel you out" to see if they can truly trust you. Once your there though, you have an unimaginable bond. Of course the uber-dubs are always shocked to find out that you, an inactive "weak" JW, are good freinds with elders that give talks at District Conventions. It's very confusing to the fully indoctrintated to see this and I LOVE IT!
yes I have friends outside of the JW's and they all know my true feelings about the WTS and they could care less. This amazed me initially. JW's are raised to feel like the whole world is watching you and knows everything about you and are trying to trick you away from Jehovah. Then you discover that few people know anything about JW's at all and could care less what religion you are as long as you are a nice person.
its not the easiest life I live, but who has an "easy life" 100% of the time? We all have our crosses to bear. All things considered, I think I have it pretty good compared to most
the jw's are quick to tell you that when jehovah has finished kicking the ass of those who do not acknowledge the teachings of the watchtowers governing body in new york state, that those who survive will live forever in a restored paradise on earth.
the same goes for those who are resurrected during the 1000 year reign of jesus and survive satan being let loose "for a little while" at the end.. they are also quick to tell you that everything will be just as it was for adam and eve before the latter decided she needed a fruit fix and then got her hubby high on it as well.. and when you view the illustrations in their publications showing what they view this paradise to be, it shows a world of lush color.
the deep greens of all the trees and grass, the clean blue skies, puffy white clouds and tables covered in a plethora of fresh fruits and vegetables representing just about every major color.
no one ever seems to think about what shift they will work in the mine shaft or steel foundry plant.
even making nails is a hot and dirty job.
some talk about golf.... where are you gonna get the clubs? widdle your own? Shoes, belts, windows, roofing materials, lumber, sheering sheep to make wool, and leather??? what about leather??
paradise will be a very hard life indeed
idk if waking up has been good for me.
i still have almost no friends.
im still waiting to graduate this december to qualify n b certified for my job.
Trebor,
that is why the BOrg needs people like me and "itisme", to bring some balance and perspective to the R&F with whom we are friends
there are many like us that dismiss the WTS's dogma and just enjoy the close comradery of our friends. I like going to parties and seeing freinds from 20 years ago, still married, happy kids, etc. Not everything is perfect but those of us that have worked this out for ourselves have a great circle of freinds and know how to stay away from the "crazies" and uber-dubs
this sounds like the typical rank and file jw, it's actually a mental disorder, i and many others were once in this state.... delusional disorder is an uncommon psychiatric condition in which patients present with delusions, but with no accompanying prominent hallucinations, thought disorder, mood disorder, or significant flattening of affect.
[ 1 ][ 2 ] delusions are a specific symptom of psychosis.
non-bizarre delusions are fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life; examples include being followed or poisoned.
ADJUSTMENTS: its not about "brownie points", its about not validating what JW's already think about "apostates"
its posts like these that cement these stereotypes. You do more harm than good here.
tattoos may look great for a while on a young person, but as you get older they'll just look plain stupid.
your credibility will fade as you and your tattoo age together.
your skin will be permanently stuck in a timewarp, like some old newspaper headline that once meant something but later becomes meaningless.
the number 1 reason I have not gotten a tattoo is because I am afraid I will regret it later in life when its hanging off my body
as we know, it seems that many witnesses "suffer" from "illnesses" at times.. now , before anyone scolds me for being insensitive or unfeeling, i am not mocking those who really suffer from illnesses of any sort.
i am having a go at those that jump on the bandwagon of the popular illness, which actually makes real sufferers feel jaded.. i am referring to the way that many witnesses who are actually damaged as a result of the constant "fear.obsession.guilt" of jw propaganda, often seem to "contract the current illness going around", or blame it on that instead of looking at the real cause.. im sure it is a subconcious result of the burdensome pressure of jw life that brings it on.
instead of seeing the draining effect on their lives as being the result of witness life, they will latch on to the next illness going around.. so, what is the latest going to be?.
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Fybromyalgia
Depression
these are all so common among JW's. They seem to all go hand in hand too, it always seems that if you have one then you have all 3
To me these are just all fancy ways of labelling the fact one is completely bored with life and just stays in bed all day. Big surprise they're so common among JW's.
I'm seeing aspergers creep up a bit more lately. Only a few cases but it might catch on. Although this one is a bit more "mental" sounding than the others and will carry a stronger stigma with it so I don't see this gaining ground as quickly as say CFS... which seemed like everyone had it overnight all at once!
