patio34

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Posts by patio34

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  22

  My First Visit...

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...to a kh tomorrow (about 12 hours from now).. any advice?

  ;)

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  patio34

  Stephanus,

  Oooooo! Careful you don't fall down the rabbit hole--it took me 28 years to get back to normalcy.

  Good luck!
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  5

  Jesus Born of a Virgin?

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an excerpt from 'middle eastern mythology' by s. h. hooke regarding the viriginity and reasons thereof for mary:.

  "the third tendency at work in the matthaean birth narrative raises the larger question of the borrowing of mythological material from pagan sources.

  we have already seen that, in describing the divine activity in creation the hebrew writers made use of sumerian and babylonian creation myths .

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  patio34

  You're right Francoise. Thanks for the answer.

  The book I quoted from goes into many of the myths the Hebrews have borrowed from. It's amazing the things the WTS never addresses. It was a mistake for me to trust them so much.

  Btw, have you seen the thread by ISP about the Jesus puzzle? It's very good.

  Patio
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  6

  Earl Doherty's 'Jesus Puzzle'

  by ISP in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  part one: a conspiracy of silence.

  around the year 107, the christian bishop of antioch made a last, doleful journey.

  under military escort ignatius travelled by land from antioch to rome, where in its brutal arena he was to die a martyr's death.

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  patio34

  Hi Earl,

  Thanks so much for sharing that--it's a keeper! I didn't catch where it was from, though. Please let us know.

  You may be interested in a thread I started on the virgin birth in this forum.

  Patio
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  5

  Jesus Born of a Virgin?

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an excerpt from 'middle eastern mythology' by s. h. hooke regarding the viriginity and reasons thereof for mary:.

  "the third tendency at work in the matthaean birth narrative raises the larger question of the borrowing of mythological material from pagan sources.

  we have already seen that, in describing the divine activity in creation the hebrew writers made use of sumerian and babylonian creation myths .

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  patio34

  Here is an excerpt from 'Middle Eastern Mythology' by S. H. Hooke regarding the viriginity and reasons thereof for Mary:

  "The third tendency at work in the Matthaean birth narrative raises the larger question of the borrowing of mythological material from pagan sources. We have already seen that, in describing the divine activity in Creation the Hebrew writers made use of Sumerian and Babylonian Creation myths . . . We have a precedent for the use of mth in a way transcending its original function in early religions. The problem meets us in its acutest form in connexion with the Christian dogma of the virgin birth.'

  'Mary is "found with child of the Holy Ghost"; and the gospel writer goes on to declare that the event is a fulfilment of an oracle of Isaiah which he QUOTES FROM THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT version of the OT. This verson reads, "Behold the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel."

  'HERE THE POINT TURNS ON THE GREEK WORD parthenos, which is rightly translated "virgin."

  'The HEBREW word, however, "almah", which the Septuagine translators have rendered parthenos, DOES NOT MEAN "VIRGIN," but "yound woman", that is, any young woman of marriageable age.

  'If the Isainic oracle be examined in its context, it will be seen that, in a time of trouble and the threat of a foreign invasion, the prophet urged King Ahaz to ask Yahweh for a sign, and . . . this was to be the birth of a child to an unnamed young woman the child was to be named Immanuel . . .'

  'But there is no suggestion in the Hebrew text of a miraculous birth from a virgin. Hence the Christian writer's claim that the virgin birth of Jesus is a fulfilment of the Isaianic oracle is based on a istranslation of the Hebrew. But the fact that Matthew or his source could interpret the oracle in this way shows that the belief in the virgin birth had already taken root in the early Christian community ON OTHER GROUNDS.

  '. . . the current existence of many myths of the divine birth of various heroes of antiquity, such as Herakles, Alexander, and others, played a part in the development of the belief in the virgin birth of Jesus. . . Hebrew writers drew on heathen mythology in describing the divine activity in Creation, so that the larger question of the use of myth in describing the divine activity in NEW CREATION cannot be disregarded.' (Emphasis & paragraphs mine, sorry I don't have italics.) pp. 170-172.

  This book is out of print, but I got a copy from the library.

  I'd be interested in your comments on this.

  Patio
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  18

  Doubletalk

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some times the inconstancies and contradictions in the watchtower literature seems almost unbelievable.

  the double standard of the watchtower writers seems to be without limit.. one of the explanations for this is that some watchtower articles deals with how jehovah's witnesses want to be perceived and how they want to be treated by society in general, and the contradictory articles deals with how the faithful and loyal witnesses should regard their enemies and outsiders.

  in psalm 139 this is spoken of as a complete hatred.

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  patio34

  Thanks Norm--that had the skill of a trial attorney (but, no offense!) By using the Wt, you have "hoisted them by their own petard."
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  19

  JWs and Alcohol Abuse/Addition/Escapism

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i first started studying in 84 at the ripe ol age of 29, i was told oft and repeatedly that jws did everything in moderation, and nothing sinful or unbiblical.

  apparently, like everything else, they have added footnotes to the scriptures that say not to get drunk, as that seems to be their only "legitimate" (read, unregulated) escape from the reality that is the witchtrowel babble and trash sectciety.. there was one elder in my first congregation that reeked of alcohol even first thing in the morning at field service.

  i was told by someone "born in the truth" that he had a "body chemistry problem, whereby when he would sweat it would smell like alcohol, and he did sweat profusely...hence the reddenned face.

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  patio34

  In this area there was a sister who had rented a room from an older one. The older one kicked her out. I inquired of the family what the reasons were and was told just needed someone older. The sister had asked to rent a room from me.

  Well, she lasted 6 weeks at my place. She was apparently going on benders and would stay holed up for 36 hours. But I had no proof and just asked her to move.

  She then got another sister to rent a room to her and was very blatant about her binge drinking. We had both told the local elders, but apparently nothing was done.

  In fact, when I was speaking to an elder, I mentioned some cigarette butts and he was much more interested in that than the drunkenness.

  Well now the sister is dead from an apparent overdose of drugs and alcohol.

  It seems she had been at it for at least the last ten years, but never df'd.

  But, I have doubts and would be considered much worse! Go figure. . .

  Patio
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  14

  Moments That Make Your Skin Crawl.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought that it might be fun to have a "my most embarrassing moment" competition.

  if the thread takes off, first, second and third places will receive a prize guaranteed to be of no monetary value whatsoever!

  so, i've had to give a lot of thought to exactly what was my most embarrassing moment as a jw.. was it as a 12 year old child travelling on the london underground, whilst being forced to wear a label that shouted in lurid purple: "gods kingdom rules!

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  patio34

  Here's one:

  I took my 4 children to a school play and we sat in the back row so as not to be conspicuous during the national anthem. Well, when the speaker announced the anthem, everyone stood AND TURNED AROUND--the flag was on the back wall! So not only were we seated, but the entire audience was facing us in the back row . . . I still cringe.

  Patio
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  57

  Your best caption please.

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know how this works, just give us your best caption for this pic' .

  [why do i get the feeling that 'gutter' will crop up more than once?].

  nic'.

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  patio34

  Englishman,

  Thanks for the laugh-out-loud you provided!

  Patio
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  5

  Whimsy

  by patio34 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i didn't know where to post this--it's just a funny experience i had today.. i planted two new rose bushes and went out to put the hose on them this morning before work.

  a medium-sized bird swooped down and hit me lightly in the back.

  later at noon i went out to change the hose and the bird swooped at me twice--i didn't think i'd make it out of the yard!

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  patio34

  Prisca,

  Your tip works--I just keep my face towards them (there are 2!) and they eyeball me. But I get out pretty quickly!

  After all, the latest idea is that they evolved from dinasours, so they can be pretty aggressive.

  Kristen, the yogurt is better than the flavored kinds you buy.

  Thanks for the sympathy Wendy!
  Patio
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  28

  Amateur Counselors & Nice "Wicked&quot...

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  two observations since leaving the jws:.

  1. are the elders really 'teachers'?

  in the public talk they have to follow the outline provided by the wt.

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  patio34

  Flowerpetal,

  Glad we're straightened out. I pictured you as a younger person, but you said you were old enough to be a grandmother. Fancy that.

  Well, I've got to yield the tv to Nick, my grandson, to watch 'Mulan.' Bye!

  Patio