Posts by Londo111

50

Eagerly anticipating the death of billions!

by stuckinarut2 in

surely someone who eagerly looks forward to the death of billions of people (including babies and children) is not emotionally healthy?.

yet, that is the key belief "happily" anticipated by witnesses.... food for thought?.

Londo111

I think most JWs want a Paradise, but don't look forward to the eternal destruction of seven billion people. Perhaps some do...likely Anthony Morris.

I know when I was a JW wrestling with this teaching, praying about it, arguing with God as to whether there could be a better way. I suspect that I was not alone with wrestling with this.

I believe there may be categories:

(1) JWs who want Paradise, but struggle with the death of billions.

(2) JWs who don't really know their own official teachings...they've kind of zoned out at meetings or something. Perhaps they think Armageddon is supposed to do away with murders and rapists, but not all those who are not JW. Or perhaps those who die will get to come back in the resurrection.

(3) Perhaps similar to category 2, JWs who only spout the "outsider teachings" that Watchtower gives to the outside world: God judges, we can't, blah, blah, blah. They are either unaware or consciously or subconsciously sidestepped the real insider teaching.

(4) Maverick JWs who believe their own thing knowingly apart from the insider Watchtower teaching. Technically, this makes them an apostate, but they believe themselves as faithful JWs. Perhaps they think the Governing Body will clarify matters as time goes on.

(5) JWs who believe the official teaching down the line, but it doesn't bother them as long as they make it.

9

WMSCOG - Another cult à la Watchtower

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

was reading up on the world mission society church of god, or wmscog for short, a south korean church founded in the early 60s by ahn sahn-hong.

the church has a million+ members in over 100 countries.

they believe in god the father (jehovah) and a god the mother, whom they claim to be a living south korean woman named jan gil-ja.

Londo111

They may, but you can never take a cult at their word.

Things are never what they seem...

9

WMSCOG - Another cult à la Watchtower

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

was reading up on the world mission society church of god, or wmscog for short, a south korean church founded in the early 60s by ahn sahn-hong.

the church has a million+ members in over 100 countries.

they believe in god the father (jehovah) and a god the mother, whom they claim to be a living south korean woman named jan gil-ja.

Londo111

Reading about them, they are unrelated. Of course, there are similarities.

This group had a phenomenal growth rate. They must be the true religion!

9

WMSCOG - Another cult à la Watchtower

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

was reading up on the world mission society church of god, or wmscog for short, a south korean church founded in the early 60s by ahn sahn-hong.

the church has a million+ members in over 100 countries.

they believe in god the father (jehovah) and a god the mother, whom they claim to be a living south korean woman named jan gil-ja.

Londo111

Fascinating.

Going through Wikipedia, the founder was a Seventh Day Adventist, then broke off from that. So this is yet another distant cousin of JWs.

22

144,000 & The Trinity

by Libby in

now that i'm looking beyond what the wt teaches i'm struggling to find information on three topics.

the 144,000, the trinity and prayer.. if anyone has 5 minutes could they explain:.

1. what do other religions think the 144,000 are or is?

Londo111

Libby:

Wikipedia is always a good starting place.

Check out the section Canonical history section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon

An interesting book I read on the subject was from Ellen Pagels, "Revelations: Visions, Prophecy, and Politics in the Book of Revelation."

Case in point of what 666 actually means, see the section about Nero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

Five kings have fallen: Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius

One is: Nero

One is to arrive but remain a short while: Galba

Babylon the Great is identified as a city. There are schools of thought that say Jerusalem, others say Rome.

Another thing to consider if the genre of Revelation (apocalyptic literature). Both Daniel and Revelation fall into this category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature

22

144,000 & The Trinity

by Libby in

now that i'm looking beyond what the wt teaches i'm struggling to find information on three topics.

the 144,000, the trinity and prayer.. if anyone has 5 minutes could they explain:.

1. what do other religions think the 144,000 are or is?

Londo111

1. What do other religions think the 144,000 are or is?

Most do not focus on this at all. The book of Revelation is heavily symbolic and hard to interpret. Most denominations don’t derive theology from the symbolic parts of the Bible and then reinterpret the non-symbolic parts, rather the other way around.

Watchtower theology picks at chooses what parts of the 144000 to take literal and what parts are symbolic. For instance, twelve tribes of Israel? Symbolic. 12000 each? Symbolic. So a symbolic number (12) multiplied by another symbolic number (12000) ends up being a literal number (144000)? The 144000 are virgins, but Watchtower says that is symbolic? And where does it say only they go to heaven?

If you do a little digging into the “Great Crowd”…that they are shown performing Sacred Service day and night in the Temple (the Holy Place, not some outer courtyard), then it is obvious they perform priestly duties and are part of the “kingdom of priest and a holy nation”.

Also if you do a little digging into the “Other Sheep”, which goes back to John, not Revelation, it is obvious Jesus was referring to Gentiles.

In the end, who the symbolic 144000 are aren’t a big deal. Much of Revelation seems to have been about events that occurred in the first century. And it was a controversial book that almost was excluded from the Bible canon. But it was finally accepted into the canon by Trinitarians in the 3rd century.

2. I can find lots of information as to scriptures that show how God and Jesus can be the same. But if Jesus is God, how did he send himself to earth ? And how did he pray to God when on earth ?

The Trinitarian theology is that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, but share the same divine essence. Three Persons in one God, all equally divine, but having different roles and relationships to each other. Thus in this view, Jesus doesn’t send himself to earth, the Father does. Jesus (one person) prayed to the Father (another person).

Of course, in mainstream denominations, people don’t really sweat this stuff and it is no big deal. People end up having personal views on these matters and don’t spend much time thinking about it.

3. If God and Jesus are the same do other religions still ask their prayer in Jesus's name or do they just say Amen ?

Yes, many denominations pray in Jesus name. Again, they pray to the Father (one person), in Jesus name (another person). Or as directed in John 14:14, they can pray to Jesus (“ask me anything in my name and I will do it”).

15

Watchtower Lost Lopez Summary Judgement

by John Davis in

superior court of california,.

minute order.

time: 10:00:00 am.

Londo111

Thanks.

14

More scullduggery in the New World Translation?

by NikL in

i was reading in jude last night in the esv bible.. i came across this little gem as i was falling asleep and woke right up.. jude 1:5.

5 now i want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that jesus, who saved a people out of the land of egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

jesus who saved a people out of egypt?

Londo111

I stand corrected. I didn't know about the textual variants.

I confirmed what slimboyfat said here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament#Epistle_of_Jude

22

As an Ex JW now, how would you react if you met your Bible study conductor?

by EverApostate in

i was a jw for 11 years , came to know ttatt and wrote my disassociation letter 5 years ago.

since then i had been an atheist and trying all i can to spread awareness for “still in” members.

my wife and mom are still jws and i do get along with them perfectly.

Londo111

As the third generation JW on both sides of the family, I didn't really have a study conductor. My parents sporadically had a family study which was essentially the Watchtower lesson for that week, but often included me when studying with other people who got dunked (in the end which had the same effect).

11

JW Sound System Hacked During Meeting . #jworg #jwonly

by TTaTT4U in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdfs5b-ant4.

Londo111

Did they hear this in the kingdom hall?