i've seen him referred to as both on this forum.. did he sincerely believe that he was an inspired prophet whose end-time predictions and biblical interpretations came from god?
or was he just a shrewd businessman who saw a market of disillusioned christians who believed that armageddon was imminent that he could exploit?.
i personally lean toward the latter.. .
My guess is that he started as a sincere but mistaken Adventist, but as he became successful and made money off Study In The Scriptures, amassed followers and acclaim, he got corrupted along the way. He lied under oath in court over the Solon Society and got caught red-handed. That was not the actions of a conscientious believer.
Still, he would have been chagrined at knowing what the Judge, Knorr and Freddie would do to the movement.
hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .
recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .
but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.
I'll touch on a few points...
* isolation, deprivation
JWs are isolated, even though geographically the majority do not live on the Bethel compounds. It is ingrained only to make friends with other JWs, not to get close to “worldly people”. Children are not supposed to part in extracurricular activities or sports. Adults are not supposed to spend time with coworkers after work. JWs have to take their leave when holiday activities come up. Besides, there is not allot of free time from non-cult activities and that isolates a person from the outside world.
Since all one’s support network, friends and family, end up being JWs, isolation is used as a tool to keep people in line. A person may be marked, thus excluded from social activities. Or they may be disfellowshipped, in which case such ones are isolated by total shunning.
Enzo, have you ever been that excluded? Have you gone three days without talking with anyone? I have. I know the isolation that the Watchtower brings upon people. Many of us here can testify to this.
Unlike the popular sterotype, most cults members live in their own houses and have normal jobs, only a minority live in compounds. For JWs, that minority are called Bethelites. Bethelites are even more isolated, living on the Bethel compound, where they are worked hard and have to obey a very arbitrary and extensive list of rules. It is a grueling regimen.
* hours of indoctrination
Wow, where do I begin with this? JWs used to meet three times a week, now it is only twice. Even so, they attend 4 hours of meetings a week. And then, they have to spend time “preparing” for the meetings, and “studying” other JW publications. There are also long, monotonous assemblies that they must attend. Perhaps you should sit through a weekend at one of these assemblies and see what you think.
*economical damage
Because “higher education” is frowned upon, this can have a long-term impact. What is encouraged is for JWs to “pioneer”, making a fulltime career of recruitment. To make room for this, the admonition is to take part time work, cut back on one’s standard of living, downsize one’s house. Before 1975, many sold their homes, businesses, and so forth, to pioneer. The Watchtower gave tacit approval of such a course. Some put off medical and dental procedures because they were encouraged to think that the end was coming in 1975. There is much economical impact to the JW community. Not everyone “sold their home” to serve the Watchtower, but thousands have.
JWs are indoctrinated in an extreme way…it is a low and slow process that never ends, and it is almost impossible to break because of its subtle nature. If you’ve ever seen a JW’s aposta-alarm go off, you would see how indoctrinated they are.
More have died in the JWs than Jim Jones, the Solar Temple, Waco, and combined and many times over. This makes the Watchtower the most dangerous cult of all, a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
And, Enzo, the blood policy is not being enforced? I’m sorry, but you are very misinformed. It is hard to say if the Watchtower will want to make a public spectacle of King, or what his status is as a JW, whether inactive, or where his records are, and so forth. All this has an impact how such situations are handled. There are many nominal JWs, like Serina Williams, who do things most JWs would get in trouble for.
From page 111 of the Shepard The Flock book (the secret elder’s handbook), it says:
If someone willingly takes blood, perhaps because of being under extreme pressure, the committee should obtain the facts and determine the individual’s attitude. If he is repentant the committee would provide spiritual assistance in the spirit of Galatians 6: 1 and Jude 22, 23. Since he is spiritually weak, he would not qualify for special privileges for a period of time, and it may be necessary to remove certain basic privileges. Depending on the circumstances, the committee may also need to arrange for an announcement to the congregation: "'The elders have handled a matter having to do with [name of person]. You will be glad to know that spiritual shepherds are endeavoring to render assistance." On the other hand, if the elders on the committee determine that he is unrepentant, they should announce his disassociation.
The Watchtower has made it so a person is not disfellowshipped by taking blood, rather, they are said to have disassociated themselves. The result is the same: shunning. It is a beancounting maneuver. They told Bulguria they don’t disfellowship a person for taking blood. That is technically true, but by taking blood, a person is expelled nonetheless. They just call it something else.
And beyond the threat of shunning, because of Information Control, threat of Armageddon and other fears and guilts that are laid on thick, the Watchtower can still influence their members to not take blood. I’m sure one day the Watchtower will lift its blood ban, however, it won’t change the fact that thousands already have died because of this.
While other groups practice ‘excommunication’, this is not often practiced, even if on the books, and it is simply a membership change. In these groups, excommunication does not result in institutional shunning, and the excommunicating those who do not shun the expelled. Excommunication and shunning are the hallmarks of a destructive cult.
Everything above is not my opinion, but facts, which you could verify if you wanted to. I am curious why you are so invested in the thought that the Watchtower is not a dangerous cult, but a benign group. After what thousands on this forum have experienced, do you really think we can be swayed on this matter? Sometimes I am not sure what you are doing here, whether you are an indoctrinated JW apologist, or whether you are a troll and just yanking our chain. If you have an honest motive for being here, I really encourage you to educate yourself more about the Watchtower and the harm it has brought on people.
i am still in & gradually fading.
i have always wondered why alot of jw's that i know are really into alot of sci-fi stuff like star wars, i robot, x-men stuff etc.
i mean they take it another level with this fantasy stuff.
It's fun to JWs and non-JWs alike! I find more meaning in sci-fi now than I did when I was in.
Everybody has different tastes.
Live long and prosper!
i'm restarting my blog.
my article on watchtower real estate is here.
http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/.
marked for later
hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .
recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .
but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.
“…at the end what really matters is that what governments defines as a good Cult, or a destructive cult.”
In a dictatorship, that is true. But in democracies, we have the freedom to dissent with government decisions. I’m a liberal, so I say this to my chagrin: sometimes there is no effective government solution to every problem. Governments can often be inept, or swayed to lobbyists and other special interests. Government is often ignorant about this subject and even when it recognizes a group as dangerous, it sometimes does more harm than good. The Branch Davidian standoff, for instance, is a good example of this.
Cults thrive on playing the persecution card. That is why outright banning or arresting people in certain groups, like the Russian Government is doing, is counterproductive. In the book A Piece of Blue Sky, the author talks about the UK’s and Australia’s offensives in the 60’s against Scientology and how that played right into Hubbard’s hands.
Groups like this have an immense legal department and or employ representatives to act on its interest in other venues, like the Watchtower becoming an NGO in the UN, now an NGO of the OSCE. They have slick PR people who employ spin to play down controversy and make the group look beneficial. Unfortunately, former members do not have the financial resources to have anyone to represent their interest or tell their side of the story. It is like David going against Goliath, but in many instances in real life, Goliath often wins.
No matter what government agencies recognize or do not recognize, it doesn’t change reality.
Is the Watchtower destructive?
Tens of thousands, including children, have died because of the Watchtower’s ban on blood transfusions. Although they now allow blood fractions, in the past, this was not allowed. There were also bans on organ transplants and vaccines, which are now lifted, but how many died because of this?
All of the Watchtower’s decisions, such as blood transfusions, are enforced by institutional shunning. Those who do not shun former members are themselves expelled and shunned. Therefore, anything a JW believes or practices is not necessary something they would have decided on their own, it is mandated from New York. They are not allowed to hear the other side of the story or any information critical to these mandates, especially from former members whom they cannot talk to, even so much as a hello. Therefore, by the time they have committed, it is almost impossible for them to make educated decision of their own choosing. As for born-ins, that is all they have ever known.
The institutional shunning of the disfellowshipped and disassociated have resulted in the splitting of untold thousands of families, as well as ending of many good friendships. JWs have to abide by the decision of the three-man judicial committees, which are held in secret with no witnesses, notes, or representative of any kind, and neither can they express any dissatisfaction with the decision made.
Overnight, a person’s whole support system, all their friends and family, can be gone. It is an extremely heartbreaking situation that many are grappling with on this forum. Shunning has led thousands to suicide, including some who used to post here. Institutional Shunning is emotional blackmail. It is a form of bullying.
The Watchtower has outright lied to various governments to get their way. Take, for instance, what the Watchtower told the Bulgarian government about blood transfusions. Bulgaria bought the lie and granted recognition.
There are many other destructive elements that could be called out, but for brevity, I will leave it there.
this is my first post on here so bear with me.
currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.
i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.
Welcome, JWINQUESTION!
I am an open-minded Christian. I doubt you will see me use obscenities, online or offline. But for a few minor things, my lifestyle is not significantly different than when I was a JW.
If two people are in a committed relationship, whether same or of opposite gender, how would that lead to an increase of STDs? As for myself, I’m not going to marry anyone of the same gender, but then I am not inclined to do so. What other people decide to do is their business, not mine.
last sunday after sitting through the ca an eldurr whom i know related this story about the warwick compound construction, as related to him by someone who had just returned from their tour of duty.. "the property is over-run with rattlesnakes.
so there are assigned brothers who catch and release them off property.
they won't kill them.
A den of snakes indeed.
Doesn't sound quite right though...are there that many rattlesnakes in upstate New York?
despite my user name, am female.
i was not born-in, began studying when i was around 20, am 50 damn years old now and have spent almost the last 30 years in that stupid religion.
but here are some observations, make of them what you will.
Amen! Well said!
the last gathering i went to, i was impressed by how submissive and compliant the young men were.
more like sweet little old ladies (not knocking old women here).
they were socially inept, and non-assertive.
Nothing wrong with being socially inept or non-assertive...much better than guzzling beer while skydiving out a plain and yelling, "Booyah!"
People who don't accept people for who they are simply aren't worth being around.
1 king david was now very old, and no matter how many blankets covered him, he could not keep warm.2 so his advisers told him, let us find a young virgin to wait on you and look after you, my lord.
she will lie in your arms and keep you warm.
3 so they searched throughout the land of israel for a beautiful girl, and they found abishag from shunem and brought her to the king.4 the girl was very beautiful, and she looked after the king and took care of him.
It's good to be the king!
