Posts by OBVES

14

Great Tribulation

by Friend in

great tribulation.

the biblical text of matthew 24:21 speaks of a great tribulation that, unless cut short, no flesh would be saved from.

jehovahs witnesses have often applied that scriptural text as having a major and minor fulfillment; one fulfillment associated with jerusalems destruction in 70 ad and a later fulfillment just prior to the end of this worlds system of things.

OBVES

Great Tribulation in my view ended in 1999 AD which was a symbolic sign of the coming end.

I superimpose the horrible events from 1914 AD - 1944 AD upon the period 1984 AD -1999 AD.

The first world war : 1914 AD - 1919 AD = 5 years.

The Great Depression of 1929 AD - 1932 AD = 3 years.

The Second World War : 1938 AD - 1945 AD = 7 years .

1984 AD + 7 years + 3 years + 5 years = 1999 AD.

In the year 1999 AD was a solar eclipse as as a sign and in 2000 AD a lunar eclipse as a sign and 12 stars falling down are 12 years after.

Matthew 24.29-30.

The first star fell in 2000 AD in the fall which means the first year of 12 years remaining passed away .Then we have the second star falling in 2001 AD with the last star falling in the fall in 2011 AD.

1999 AD + 12 years as 12 stars falling = 2011 AD.

Harold Camping of the Family Radio teaches the Great Tribulation began on May,21,1988 AD when God put Satan over all local church congregations which must be abandoned by those who want to be saved in 2011 .

May,21,1988 AD - May,21,2011 AD makes the period of Great Tribulation according to Harold Camping from http://www.familyradio.com .

In his view the Grat Tribulation will last 23 years exactly as to the single day precisely .

Note on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn which is my favorite discussion group (on usenet ) I have a period of 23 years from

2011 AD to 2034 AD.

2300 days from Daniel 8.14 the best way were placed by Harold Camping inmy view:

May,21,1988 AD + "2300 days" which are included in the 23 -year Great Tribulation leads to September ,7,1994 AD which began a jubilee year

and the Latter Rain Harvest began at that time : the final seperation of wheat from tares.

On this one point about right placing of 2300 days Harold Camping beat up me and all Jehovah's Witnesses .I think he is the only person on the face of the earth that got it right the best way.

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

OBVES

It is likened a lot to all nominal christian cuhurches .They are in negative view in the endtime before Jesus returns.

Israel in the Mideast is like a fig tree. It will not bring fruits in our times .

1948 AD May,14 Israel as a political entity established miraculously + 40 years of testing leads us to May,14,1988 AD.They failed the test.

But I see a light for those Jews who in small number believed in the Messiah in all past history as they will be a core of the revieved nation of Israel in the Paradise.

All Jews will turn to God in the period of 2011 AD - 2018 AD which will end a 70-year tribulation for them : 1948 AD + 70 years = 2018 AD.This is my prediction based on the Bible.

29

Precisely when in 1914 did the GT end???

by JCole in

i have been asking this question since studying the babylon the great book back in the '60s.

maybe i'm thickskulled, but simply restating that it ended in october or tishri doesn't explain away my reasons for asking the question.

i'm only looking for answers about the date in 1914, and i'm not looking for the typical apostate replies that the year is wrong.. i question october/tishri being the end of the gentile times, and thus the start of jesus' reign, for the following reasons:.

OBVES

It is the year when the signs of the endtime era became so obvious as predicted by the Bible that it was a triumphant time for Jesus .

We could say Jesus came spiritually as his prediction were coming to pass .But this was not an actual coming of Jesus visible to his believers that is going to take place at his second coming .

The date 1914 AD is an important phase in the endtime history and it is in favor of the International Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses as well.

In the era of 1879 AD - 1884 AD - 1914 AD the true christianity was reborn .

7 BC is reflected by the year 1879 AD, 2 BC by 1884 AD and 29 AD by 1914 AD .

That time marked the beginning of the endtime era ,not the end of the world . The end of the world comes into view when the endtime era ends.

We must have a period of 120 years taken into account in the likeness of Noah's time as per Matthew 24.37-39.

So the first year to have the first prediction would be ..

1879 AD + 120 years = 1999 AD.

1884 AD + 120 years = 2004 AD .

1914 AD + 120 years = 2034 AD.

We must put all prediction dates from before 1999 AD at rest.

Now we are living in the final phase of the endtime era.

And it turns out with peculiar calculatuions that we may expect the end of the world in 2011 AD.

11 AD + 2000 years = 2011 AD.

11 AD is taken as the time when Jesus was teaching already in the Jerusalem Temple as a youngster.

The frequency of the latest predictions betrays we must be winding up with the endtime era .

I must admit I made failed predictions for the year 1999 AD,2000 AD,2001 AD,2004 AD,2005 AD and now have a prediction for 2011 AD which seems to be much better than my all past predictions and have a backup date which is the last possible prediction date : the year 2034 AD.

1884 AD + 120 years from Genesis 6.3 + 7 years for 7 days from Genesis 7.1-4 = 2011 AD.

Harold Camping who opposes Jehovah's Witnesses from http://www.familyradio.com has also the year 2011 AD and he is 100% sure Christ will return on May,21,2011 AD. He has got very good proofs based on date calculations.

According to him anyone doubting his declaration on May,21,2011 will die in the period of 153 days of the Judgement Day that will end up on October,21,2011 AD. On that day God will destroy all the universe .

Harold Campig has built a very competitive proclamation on May,21,2011 beating up Jehovah's Witnesses with these two 100% certain dates.

He has no doubts at all concerning these two dates he is now proclaiming all over the world via radio ,internet.

42

Jesus or Jehovah?

by Seven in

i ran across this on truthsearcher.

i would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.. __________.

who is the "alpha and omega" and the first and last"-jesus or jehovah?.

OBVES

Most christian religions don't really know who is God Yahweh and who is Jesus Christ !

Jehovah's Witnesses are winners on this subject as compared to what these religions teach about Jesus.

Harold Camping who proclaims with 100% certainty ( http://www.familyradio.com ) Jesus will return on May,21,2011 AD is confused on who is

God Jehovah and who is Jesus . He had studied the Bible for more than 50 years like no other living human being now may be.

He thinks Jesus is God the Father ! And I rate Harold Camping as Bible preacher number one on radio earthwide.

7

There is nothing new under the sun.

by wannabefree in

i like to think that "god's organization" has been getting oppressive recently and will cause many to wake up ... but the more i examine old publications, the more my hopes are dashed.. *** w52 8/15 pp.

500-501 par.

15 god's spirit essential to maturity ***.

OBVES

Some new things are happening now. They are oustide the Jehovahs Witness organization right now .

There is a prediction for Christ's return in 2011 AD visit this usenet group alt.religion.jehoavhs-witn .

12

Prophetic errors and other ???

by Seven in

does anyone know of other sites where one can ask questions about the society's prophetic errors and other doctrinal objections?

i have so many questions and don't wish to be troubled with triggered responses and other aggrevations.. thanks in advance,.

7

OBVES

This is obvious that those who make predictions for the return of Jesus and the end of the world -regardless how this end is understood- must use the Bible to do that and we must know the religion of a person that makes such a prediction .

Once we establish who has the true religion we are in the safe ground to rely on any prediction that is made in such true religion.

We dion't come to the truth the first time around . We study the Bible the best way we can and with the time as our understanding grows we adjust our views properly.

The true endtime era began not in 1914 AD as it was the beginning of the endtime era .

But the endtime era must end some time and we are living now in that part of the endtime era as our understandig becomes better with passing time.

To come up with the prediction for 2011 AD ( check up my posts on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn a usenet group )

you can see how many things must be taken into account to come up now with any reliable prediction.It is not just a simple guess work .

67

PROOF from the WT

by Scorpion in

jw
friends

that the organization means salvation

OBVES

Only God brings in salvation but Jehovahs Witness organization may help you to guide you into the Scriptures and it will be possible that you can be saved as God approves of them.

There is now a prediction in place for 2011 AD and for Christ to return we should have a period of 120 years just as it was in Noah's days using Matthew 24.37-39.

There must be a christian religion that is related to such a period of 120 years.

The International Bible Students and their successors Jehovah's Witnesses fit this time scenario.

Visit this group alt.religion.jehovahs-witn to see in my posts how the role of Jehovah's Witnesses bears upon the endtime era .

1884 AD + 120 years from Genesis 6.3 = 2004 AD + 7 years for 7 days from Genesis 7.1-4 = 2011 AD.

52

JW prophets or not!!

by Zep in

well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

OBVES

Once it is established they represent true christian religion whch can be done easily ( read my posts on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ) using the doctrine of hell ,we can say they are true endtime prophets.

Each and every person teaching the Bible is a prophet according to the New Testament rules- Revelation 19.10 as they give the right testimony about Jesus when compared to all other christian religious groups.

Read Matthew 24.45-46 which speaks about the faithful servant that near the return of Jesus is put over all the household to rule and give food to his sheep. Only Jehovah's Witnesses fit this description from all known christian organizations.

If you know other organization give me in response .Remember the words in Matthew 24.45-46 must be fullfiled just before Jesus comes back.

There is a date set for his return 2011 AD if you read my posts on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn .

Note also that faithful servant has a complete rule over his flock .The flock is at the mercies of the servant totally.So it must be a strict organization that doesn't allow for compromise or any opposition to it within it .

45

6000 Years doctrine has a flaw... duh

by ex-witness in

let's see... .the sumerians existed 10000 years ago.. archaeologists have found a settlement in china with evidence of tools and agriculture that is over 1.36 million years old.

.

hmmm.. that's a big difference between 6000 and 1.36 million.... .

OBVES

The doctrine of 6000 years stil holds in the light of the latest discoveeries from the Bible.

If you know my posts on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn I am still holding to this idea .

I take one day as 1000 years and 10 years.

4027 BC is a starting date - Adam created and go 6 days to 2034 AD.

4027 BC to 2034 AD we have 6060 years and then a period of 1000 years and 10 years follows.

4027 BC ........ 2034 AD + 1000-year Sabbath Day and then a period of 10 years which is the period : 3034 AD - 3044 AD.

This short period could be the finalization of the Judgement Day .

The eternity will begin after 3044 AD.

4027 BC + 7 days as 7070 years ( each day 1010 years ) = 3044 AD.

The origin of one day should be counted as 1010 years can be traced to these dates the Watchtower put forth :

1037 BC - 1034 BC - 1027 BC - 607 BC - 1914 AD .. I add 1984 AD - 1991 AD - 1994 AD.

3 years + 7 years +7 times as 420 years + 7 times as 2520 years + 7 years + 3 years = 3030 years.

45

6000 Years doctrine has a flaw... duh

by ex-witness in

let's see... .the sumerians existed 10000 years ago.. archaeologists have found a settlement in china with evidence of tools and agriculture that is over 1.36 million years old.

.

hmmm.. that's a big difference between 6000 and 1.36 million.... .

OBVES

The best formulas that can be established from the Bible on age of the universe and the earth would be :

6 days of creation x 7000 years as God's time x 360 days in a prophetic year X 1000 years as man's time = some 15 billion years.

This would be for the universe.

1/6 for the earth = some 2.1 billion years.

I think science would agree with that.