Posts by Theredeemer

46

Number of anointed partakers in new yearbook?

by JWOP in

i haven't seen the 2014 yearbook on the jw site yet.

i'm looking to see if the number of partakers has increased again (as it has for many years now).

anyone have a scan of it yet?.

Jesus' Teachings - Helpful or Harmful?

by jgnat in

spinning off from another thread, have jesus' teachings been less than universally helpful to mankind?

how do we measure if a particular philosophy is helpful or harmful?.

i am going to use the "universal morals" listed here.

Jesus had nothing special to say. He repeated some stuff that many before and after him said. He was inconsistent, argumentive, and rude, while also being nice, caring, generous and loving. He was born and he died. Sounds like your average dude to me.

What seperates him from some other martyrs are his miracles and the resurrection. Its these two added things that has made his "message" so powerful and so dangerous. If you took these two things away he would be just some loud mouth dude that caused a tiny stir in the a tiny part of the world 2000 years ago. Much like Ghandi will be viewed 2000 years from now. If you think about it Ghandi had a similar message and his movement actually did what Jesus failed to do, liberate his people . Like Jesus, Ghandi was killed by one of his own. Guess what though, who cares? Frankly what happens on that side of the world does not concern me. Its just something you learn in history class...unless.... you add that he was the son of god, he raised people from the dead, he cured sickness and, on top of all that, was raised from the dead; everyone would care!! Everyone would begin to take notice. At that time, his movement would have spread from India to Britain (the biggest Imperial Empire ever) then to all over the world.

These lies, however, could not have survived. By that time we already had cameras, television, radios and much more. People would have demanded evidence not just word of mouth.

The Jesus movement was during a time when people were less informed, less educated and less skeptical.

And this is why the movement, not his words, are so harmful. They keep people less informed, less educated and less skeptical. They allow people to evade (see Terry's post) reality. Take away all the magic and he is just another dude.

31

next week's bible reading (Gen. 1-5) stumpers.for your "in" family conversations & sly comments.

by prologos in

you may add many, but here are two:.

1) vegetation made on day 3, animals formed day 5,6, but- then.

in gen 2, man seems to be the primary creation, and vegetation and then animals were formed from the dust and brought to him to name them.

Theredeemer

It would make more sense if WT stated that God gave Adam and Eve a choice "You can either live forever or have knowledge like me". Satan tricks Adam and Eve into eating the tree of knowledge by saying that God lied and the knowledge fruit grants both, thus setting in motion the events that would result in man drifting further and further away from the need of God and dooming the one creation that Satan and other angels feel jealous over. God's proudest creation now ignores him and has almost matched his ultimate level of knowledge: creation of life. Almost because, although humans can create life, they cannot sustain it forever. Humans still long for this and they need this, God being all loving sent his son to prove to all that, although we are ment to die, as Jesus did, life continues on in heaven. Jesus was not, I repeat, not immortal. If he had been, nothing could have killed him. He would of hung on that cross forever. Take the example of vampires. You can shoot them, stab them but they are immortal. For them to die you have to do some very specific things.

Jesus was mortal thats why he died! But, his spirit was immortal and he went to heaven. This is the only reason he was sent. As a "proof" of resurrection, not as a ransom sacrifice. Thats Pauls Hebrew background influencing his thoughts.

Anyway, when put in this context it makes a little more sense. Its still all crap IMO.

16

Why does the WT insist that the first five books of the bible were written by Moses?

by marmot in

any biblical scholar worth his salt will tell you otherwise, and it's not as if this is a new concept.

as early as the 1700s people were noticing that the first books of the bible had numerous authors.

tell that to an elder, though, and you'll be booted for apostasy faster than you can say spanish inquisition.

Theredeemer

I used to think that it would be a HUGE let down if, in paradise, Moses was nothing like the kick ass Moses Charlton Heston was.

31

next week's bible reading (Gen. 1-5) stumpers.for your "in" family conversations & sly comments.

by prologos in

you may add many, but here are two:.

1) vegetation made on day 3, animals formed day 5,6, but- then.

in gen 2, man seems to be the primary creation, and vegetation and then animals were formed from the dust and brought to him to name them.

Theredeemer

I brought up the Tree of Life issue with a JW friend. I mentioned that Adam and Eve were not made to live forever. Everlasting Life was contingent on eating the fruit of life. This was the source of immortality, not God. Adam and Eve were made to die. The punishment for sin was getting kicked out of paradise and thus missing out on delicious fruit that happens to grant eternity. They did however get to become "like God" in knowing good and bad. Death did not enter our DNA when they sinned, it was in us from the get go. Death did not enter into us through sin, nature was allowed happen because they sinned.

So I posed the questions, " If God made man in his image, then why was he made to die?" "Does God need to eat a magical fruit too in order to keep living?"

Of course, my friend was overwhelmed and just had a blank stare. Actually, this was the conversation that led to me blurting out "the religion is BULLS&%T!!" and which led to my wife and I being outed.

58

The truth about Hispanic JWs in the United States

by Hecce in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf/> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables/> <w:snaptogridincell/> <w:wraptextwithpunct/> <w:useasianbreakrules/> <w:dontgrowautofit/> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark/> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp/> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables/> <w:dontvertalignintxbx/> <w:word11kerningpairs/> <w:cachedcolbalance/> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math"/> <m:brkbin m:val="before"/> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--"/> <m:smallfrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispdef/> <m:lmargin m:val="0"/> <m:rmargin m:val="0"/> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup"/> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"/> <m:intlim m:val="subsup"/> <m:narylim m:val="undovr"/> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].

[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

i will like to share some facts about the spanish congregations in usa.

Theredeemer

Yep. I belonged to a spanish hall most of my life. After moving to the english, I saw how they are looked down upon by the English speaking Bros. And yes the "Latin" machismo is very evident in many of the elders.

Its funny to see how, although there are thousands of Mexican immigrants in our area along with the thousands of spanish only Americans, many are choosing to help the Filipino and ASL groups because the need is great, despite there being only a few hundred of those. I helped start the ASL group and there are literally 60 non deaf JWS and 3 deaf( two are studies). They have had zero converts in the 3 years of existence. Its a special badge on the JW if you part of those groups. Yet the spanish halls are in decline. Again, being a witness now a days is all social status. Its a social club. I swear that most of the people who attend the ASL are thick frame wearing, latte drinking, poser hipsters. If only I could post some of thier pics from Instagram here! I feel so sorry for them. They are literally a joke in the "worldy" ASL community here in town.

36

This weeks LIE in the brochure

by DS211 in

this week in the brochure for the "bible reading" it states on subject 24. that jehovahs witnesses wrote a century ago that jehovahs bacjs us and we do t take donations "and we never have!!!!

".....please someone post the information to prove this as a lie as we all know they used to charge for literature.

this is an outright lie lol ridiculous..

Theredeemer

Yet having a local needs at least twice a year on the importance of donations to the congregation, having everyone fill out a slip saying how much they are willing to donate for the local assembly hall a month and asking everyone to pitch in for the new HQ IS NOT SOLICITING?!?

My mom in law (who is still in kinda) and I had this conversation yesterday. She said how "its kind of lying" how they say they dont tithe. I said, "Yah, they dont tithe. Instead, they just guilt the shit out of you to "donate" money". I also mentioned how at least the other churches give back to the community. Shouldnt each congregation have a widows and needy one fund at least? Wouldnt that be the most christian way to use funds?

36

If You Were Still "In The Truth" What Type of Life Would You Have?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you think you would be just going thru the motions?

would you be an elder, ms, or pioneer?.

i think there are many that stay in the religion simply because of family/friends considerations.

Theredeemer

I really think I would have eventually lost it completely. The first time I left I was contemplating suicide. It was during this time that I decided to leave both my ex-wife and the org. I ended up going back for while a little before I remarried just to give it one more shot but it was torture to sit there and hear all the nonsense! Thankfully, my wife learned the TTATT and it was all over. If we would have stayed I think the elders would have eventually tried to drive her away from me and I would have been forced to make a decision to continue "trying" or disassociate.

I cant imagine being a witness and not having some kind of doubt. I mean the foundations of every single belief that they hold is on very very weak ground built on pure assumptions or flat out lies! If its not the generation teaching its the 144000, the annointed, the blood issue, pedophilia, 607, 1914 and it goes on and on.

My sister is has been a witness all her life. She is like a second mom/sister to me. She was "heatbroken" when my wife and I made our descision. However, over the last year, and after numerous converstaions as to why I left, she conceded the other day that, "everything I say is true, but its too late for her". This is all she knows.

If you are a witness for no doubts whatsoever, then you are a shiny happy person. But you are also a very, very small minority in a 7 million person world that is the JW. There are people that can live life and completely swallow everything they are fed, whether from parents, a religion, a government, teachers, peers, coporate bosses or the media. They will not question, not stand up and definitely not fight against lies or betrayal. I believe its a form of laziness, mental laziness.They are content in just being drug along a river that leads to nowhere.

Thankfully, most of us here have shown in some form or another that we are not mentally lazy! We paddle against the current. Thats why many of us can thanfully answer this question as a "What if" question!!

8

Billy and anyone else taking final exams, this is for you

by nonjwspouse in

jw
friends

my son wrote this about his recent exam experience.

i thought you'd appreciate.

exam: 10:15 am - 12:15 pm.

Theredeemer

Finished mine too. Statistics was a doozy!! Still got all A's though :)

194

Bethel Rules

by brotherdan in

this was brought up just in passing on another thread.

but i wanted to see if there are any bethelites or ex bethelites that remember some of the crazy rules we had to follow when we were there..

Theredeemer

My best friend was in bethel and he said there is a "story" about a resident who watched the Exorcist on cable and the tv wouldnt shut off even after they unplugged it. A near by couple "felt something was wrong next door and upon investigation heard screaming and called someone higher up and yadda yadda yadda he was out by the end of the week. My friend stayed there a year and said the only good that came out of it was he lost 30 pounds.