Posts by ScenicViewer

6

cleveland ohio CONvention results

by nowwhat? in

7300 attendance 24 baptised an astonishing .038 percent growth!!

i wasn't there so don't ask details..

ScenicViewer

and you get .329...that is your percentage

That is less than one third of one percent - a tiny amount of growth. Actually it may represent shrinkage if more people than that left the organization or became inactive in the area represented.

221

Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

by Simon in

judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

ScenicViewer

Watchtower hired a firm that specializes is appeals cases to handle the Candace Conti appeal.

221

Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

by Simon in

judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

ScenicViewer

[edit]
I may be confusing multiple court cases. Can anyone confirm or deny what I wrote below?
[/edit]

I believe the case you referred to, that had a $13.5 million judgement and went through the appeals process, was the Jose Lopez case, which is still ongoing. The victim in the case in the OP is Osbaldo Padron. Both are victims of Gonzalo Campos, and the attorney for both victims is Irwin Zalkin.

The article linked in the OP says...

In 1982, then–18-year-old Campos allegedly tried to have sex with his 12-year-old roommate. The boy fought back, hitting Campos multiple times with a bat. The boy told church leaders and they promised to investigate. Four years later, Campos was again accused of molesting children, including Lopez and the other seven people who later filed lawsuits.

So Campos has 8 victims that have filed law suits.

It seems that attorney Zalkin has discovered a weak spot for Watchtower regarding the documents the court has ordered to be turned over. As others have noted, the sanctions will likely increase as Watchtower continues to defy the court's orders, and this will likely be compounded by having the same sanctions imposed over multiple cases in the future.

This may be much worse for Watchtower than just the $4000 per day fine. If the fine eventually grows, and it happens again and again with each new case, it could turn into something big against Watchtower.

221

Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

by Simon in

judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

ScenicViewer

Crazyguy: Unfortunately that only about 1.5 million per year. The watchtower could just ingnore the court for years.

I was thinking the same thing. The sale of just one Brooklyn building brought in $700 million, another $300 million, and there are many other Brooklyn properties already sold or soon to be sold.

A multi-billion dollar corporation could pay out $1.5 million per year forever and not notice it. Perhaps in time the sanctions will be increased to match Watchtower's wealth and stubbornness.

Maybe the bad publicity will have more of an effect than the $4000 per day. There will probably be some great Youtube videos to follow.

15

Not on jw.org : Jehovah's Witness van driver arrested for ignoring rape of child

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

http://5newsonline.com/2016/06/23/report-van-driver-arrested-for-not-stopping-rape-of-child/.

i don't believe the article says he's a jw, but he is..

ScenicViewer

The article says...

The lawsuit also states the 14-year-old suspect is related to Byrd [the bus driver], who has since resigned from his position.

Even if related to the rapist the driver was without conscience for not stopping the assualt. He has become completely desensitized to the plight of a fellow human being.

95

slimboyfat joins the Mormons!

by slimboyfat in

i know that some people on the board have experience of being mormons, so i would be interested in your feedback.

at church this afternoon it was an uncanny experience.

in the past i've read a lot about mormons, so i thought i was prepared in general for what it would be like.

ScenicViewer

Excommunicated members can come to church and people talk to them. They just don't take the bread and water for a period of time.

The church I was raised in did the same. The "not eating with such a man" reference from 1Cor 5:11 was taken to mean that person was banned from eating the 'Lord's meal.'

Of course that interpretation would never work for JWs since almost no one partakes in the first place.

14. The bread and wine was in fact scruffy bread and water.

Did they really turn the wine into water?

21

go fund me for help those who are shunned

by poopie in

jw
friends

what do you think?.

ScenicViewer

Poopie: what do you think?

Depends. I'd be happy to get myself Df'd and shunned, but you didn't say how much it pays.

24

Ever-changing teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses - probably the most comprehensive compendium about Watchtower doctrinal changes

by WTS Archive in

two days ago a new book was released for download, called "ever-changing teachings of jehovah's witnesses".

it was originally written by a polish jw scholar (who never was a jw himself) włodzimierz bednarski, with a help from szymon matusiak, who was a jw and an elder, and is a result of years of labourious work to compile quotes regarding every single doctrine the book describes.

it covers the most important changes in years 1879—2015.

ScenicViewer

I never would have guessed this.

Evolution of humans wasn't included, but Watchtower was definitely leaning toward the evolution of animals through a divinely guided process.

Thanks Slimboyfat!

19

Just called into the Kingdom Hall, Speaker said he couldn't tell if anyone was listening to his talk... Well I was and what a joke

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

just called into the kingdom hall, speaker said he couldn't tell if anyone was listening to his talk now that everyone uses electronic devices and nobody laughed... well i did!.

he also mentioned when everyone used the bible he could hear the pages flipping and he knew they were following along.

this was really funny to me.

ScenicViewer

Millie210: What business is it of the speakers to state anything about medical marijuana at all?

Amen to that.

As to the Society's stand on medical marijuana, I've been wondering about that. Since mj has become legal for medical use in many US states does Watchtower have an official position on it's use? Much harder prescription drugs, even with harsh side effects, are permitted.

If there is an objection to 'smoking' it, there are other forms in which it can be taken.

Any information?

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

ScenicViewer

TD:

In Judaism, it [the Law] is a priceless gift from a loving father and keeping it will make you happier, healthier and live longer.

...the trammel point (i.e. That death is never the natural result of keeping the Law) is absent.

What an incredibly simple yet profound point. The Law promoted life and happiness. Death only came from violating it. The Jehovah's Witness interpretation of the Law is just the opposite because it results in death often. That alone is a tremendous eye-opener to how wrong Watchtower's blood ban is.