Posts by ScenicViewer

17

Is JW.org being played?

by jw07 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wackkicmf4k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5lsyndc1me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnk52bu92oe.

ScenicViewer

jw07: I'd love to know the chain of command when it comes to approving video releases.
What do you think is going on?

JWs, especially the Governing Body, live in such an isolated world of fantasy that they don't see themselves the way normal people see them. They don't hear themselves the way normal people hear them.

In their mind, since they are "directed by God's holy spirit," they see no flaws in what they produce even though much of it is laughable.

If anyone ever needed to take off the rose colored glasses while looking at themselves in the mirror it's the GB of JWs.

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

ScenicViewer

There were late printings of The Harp of God. 1937, even a 1940 edition of the book.

That's interesting. Did they not update the information inside to match what was currently being taught by 1937?

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

ScenicViewer

I got one: if we,evolved over billions of years of survival of the fittest, how do you account for Stephen lett?

Oh that is funny!

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

ScenicViewer

Hi EdenOne,

Your post got me to looking at two editions of The Harp of God, 1927 and 1928. Although some great changes* took place between these two editions they both have a chapter entitled Our Lord's Return, and both agree on 1874 as the time of Christs return and contain chronology calculations on how that number is arrived at.

You mentioned a reversal in Watchtower understanding of Christ's return, at first being 1874, then 1914, then going back to 1874. I wonder if this perception is simply based on a typo of the publication date of The Harp of God. Your quote below says 1937, but I wonder if Harp of God was still being published in 1937. It was a book from 1921 thru at least 1928, but would Watchtower have moved on to other books by 1937?

However, there seems to have been another reversal, for 3 years later in the book The Harp Of God, they go back to 1874:

"Applying the same rule, then, of a day per a year, 1355 days after 539 AD brings us to 1874 AD, at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence is due" and "It was in the year 1874, the date of our Lord's second presence (...) - The Harp Of God (1937) p.235, 240

I couldn't find the exact quote above in either of my editions on p. 235 or 240 (but it may be somewhere in that chapter), although there was some 1874 information on p. 235 of the 1927 edition and the same information is on p. 240 of the 1928 edition.

Scans:

For a smile notice the list of things that proved we were in the presence of Christ since 1874. We had inventions and developments such as typewriters, artificial dyes, and the Panama Canal. It's quite a list. Such enlightenments proved Christ had to be present. Such was the silly thinking of JWs then, but today they have moved on to different silly thinking

*The changes from the 1927 and 1928 editions of The Harp of God included...

1) The subtitle, "Proof Conclusive That Millions Now Living Will Never Die," was dropped.

2) Information saying that Charles Taze Russell was the Faithful and Discreet Slave (Faithful and Wise Servant) was removed from the 1928 edition.

“Without a doubt Pastor Russell filled the office…and was therefore that wise and faithful servant, ministering to the household of faith meat in due season.” (The Harp of God 1927 p. 239, par. 420)

45

RC Was Worse Than I thought...

by JW_Rogue in

i was visiting with my family and it seems the rc was worse than i thought.

now they all seem to think that "we are so close to the end" and that the "brothers are really preparing us for the gt".

some even saying that soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind and talking about how we need to improve "everything we do".

ScenicViewer

...soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind...

Yes, they recycle that claim every now and then. I remember being told that in the 1970s!

2

All Hail Dave

by cofty in

.

ScenicViewer

Lol. Jesus folks who preach the word by defacing property with graffiti. I always wondered how that made sense.

57

RUSSIA: Jehovah's Witnesses face possible liquidation

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2181.

24 may 2016. russia: jehovah's witnesses face possible liquidation.

by victoria arnold, forum 18. if prosecutors proceed with their threat to liquidate the jehovah's witness headquarters near st petersburg, thousands of local congregations across russia could also face prohibition of their activities and individuals could be vulnerable to criminal charges for expressing their beliefs, forum 18 notes.. the jehovah's witnesses' principal body in russia is under threat of dissolution as an "extremist" organisation after the deadline in an official warning from the general prosecutor's office expired on 10 may, forum 18 notes.

ScenicViewer

Russia's human rights record is abysmal.

So is the human rights record of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body.

11

Underground stone rings made by Neanderthals

by freemindfade in

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/scientists-underground-stone-rings-made-by-neanderthals/2016/05/25/1fa17e98-229b-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae_story.html.

two mysterious stone rings found deep inside a french cave were probably built by neanderthals about 176,500 years ago, proving that the ancient cousins of humans were capable of more complex behavior than previously thought, scientists say..

ScenicViewer

Two more articles,

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature18291.html

57

You wear tight pants and you will be in trouble

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i was reading in another forum, that a letter to the elders instructed them to speak to anybody who persists in wearing tight pants.

if changes don't happen then the instructions are to disqualify him from being a publisher but it won't be announced to the congregation.

i am am curious to see if this letter will surface.

ScenicViewer

BluesBrother:

I should have said my thanks to J W Facts and Wi Fi Bandit for their invaluable work in providing the document. Without that it would just be a rumour.

Amen to that. Now it would be nice to dig out of the literature where it says that public preaching is a necessary activity that can't be taken from someone, even if they are under reproof. Maybe from one of the old Organization books, a Watchtower study, the elders manual, or a BOE letter. Then you would have a side by side comparison where Watchtower is saying it both ways; something the Organization does from time to time on some subjects.

57

You wear tight pants and you will be in trouble

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i was reading in another forum, that a letter to the elders instructed them to speak to anybody who persists in wearing tight pants.

if changes don't happen then the instructions are to disqualify him from being a publisher but it won't be announced to the congregation.

i am am curious to see if this letter will surface.

ScenicViewer

TheOldHippie:

"to disqualify him from being a publisher"
That was strange. It was always stressed that being a publisher is required, is a right, that as a JW you both have the right to and the obligation to preach. I remember it stated at a JC that we had absolutely no right to deny a person the right to preach. He could be told to better preach in a specific area or to avoid an area because of Things that had happened - but not to stop preaching. The only way to stop a person from preaching is to df him.
If you are disqualified from preaching - you by definition is no JW. Strange.

GrownMidget:

I agree with TheOldHippie.

I agree with TheOldHippie too. I remember a time when Witnesses were barred from field service as part of reproof, but that changed because preaching was viewed as a 'Christian requirement,' and a 'requisite for life,' therefore it was an activity that could not be taken from someone.

I had to do a double take when jwfacts posted the outline where it clearly says "the person no longer qualifies to share in the ministry." This represents another flip-flop back to the old way of doing things.