ScenicViewer

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Posts by ScenicViewer

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  72

  Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

  was there a different procedure with a different name?

  was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

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  ScenicViewer

  I like Black Sheep's reference because it describes how disfellowshipped people are to be treated - as an outsider - like a 'publican', or as the NWT says, a 'tax collector', and they can't hold Church office. In other words, like a normal person of the world, a non-Christian.

  This seems to be much different from the total cutting off and shunning that the Society today promotes, since outsiders are still spoken to and treated politely.

  Jesus had no problem approaching Matthew, a tax collector, to be one of his apostles.

  How the Watchtower has changed!
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  72

  Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

  was there a different procedure with a different name?

  was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

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  ScenicViewer

  Blondie asked,

  Does anyone know of some quotes from the WT publications before 1950 regarding disfellowshipping? Here are a couple. I. This article discusses elders that are opposed to “The Finished Mystery,” which is the 7th Vol of “Studies in the Scriptures.” If they are opposed to the book, they are opposed to, and out of harmony with, the Society’s work, and they are breeding discontent and trouble. Even so, should they be disfellowshipped? The article says No! Today the DF'ing would be swift on the charge of apostasy. (W 3-1-1918 p6220 of Reprints) (The quote is split into two parts due to column split in the Reprints) II. This Watchtower reference is critical of Churches that bring "taunts, reproaches, disfellowship and persecution" on any members that dare to express disapproval of the religion. Notice the remark about being held in 'creedal bondage...in prisons against their sense of justice and right.' Over time, Watchtower has become just like the Churches that it continues to condemn. (from Marvin Shilmer's blog, http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/cruelty-and-threat-shunning-and.html ) (W 10-1-1930 p301)
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  26

  Teenage son's last WT comment. Major sphincter puckering on my part.

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i thought maybe some of us might enjoy something light-hearted to start the week off.

  at dinner last night my teenage son reminded me of the last kh meeting he attended with me about a year ago.

  he is a big fan of christopher hitchins and self-identifies as an atheist.

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  ScenicViewer

  Your Thelma and Louise apostate convertible? Now that's funny. Glad you had a safe landing.
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  30

  Do you wish that you were never a witness?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  ScenicViewer

  Absolutely. Becoming a JW was a life changing experience, but a change for the negative. I couldn't tell for years how bad it was.
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  70

  Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

  my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

  i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

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  ScenicViewer

  The Organization Has Never Disappointed Us

  The Society claims that it has 'never disappointed us .' Here is one Watchtower quote,

  (W 7-15-2011 p12 par8 (Simplified English Version))
  "The organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word."

  Yet, from it's beginning the Society has attached meaning to dates that turned out to be false, such as 1872, 1874, 1878, 1914, 1925, 1941, 1951, 1975, 2000. Many Watchtower followers were so disappointed by the failures that they left the organization.

  One particular disappointment was the failure of the promise that the '1914 Generation would not pass away.' Below are two examples of that promise.

  I.

  

  Sadly, every one of the people pictured here is gone now, and this teaching of the '1914 Generation' was abandoned in 1995 and has been replaced a few times since with 'new understandings' of what the Generation is.

  II. In the other example, the Society claimed that it's understanding of the 'the peaceful new world' that would come before the '1914 Generation' passed away was 'the Creator's promise.' This appeared in the masthead of the Awake! magazine for many years.

  After the failure of Watchtower's promise was more than obvious the Awake! masthead was quietly altered to leave out any mention of the 1914 Generation.

  

  

  The failure of the '1914 Generation' to see fulfullment is just one of many of Watchtower's failed predictions. Regarding the statement from the 7-15-2011 Watchtower above, can we really say the "the organization has never disappointed us," and that it " always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word"? These claims are clearly misleading.

  A Scriptural thought from Prov 13:12 (NWT)

  Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is a tree of life when it does come.

  To date all of Watchtower's significant predictions have failed.

  Many sincere and thoughtful people find this disappointing.
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  18

  The Disfellowshipping Arrangement, New Book, Hope It Helps

  by graysome67 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello, i renounced my belief/faith in the watchtower society a few years ago, though i am still a bible believer.

  since departing from them, i have studied the bible aptly to try to understand it's true teachings.

  i decided to start publishing essays in the hope that my research may help enlighten other disillusioned jw's by seeing alternative viewpoints, or at least pointing them in a direction that would help unlock their minds when studying the bible.

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  ScenicViewer

  The disfellowshipping arrangement is one of the saddest arrangements of one of the saddest religions on earth.

  The price is very low. I'll be ordering one and having a look.
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  70

  Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

  my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

  i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

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  ScenicViewer

  Joining an Organization

  (From Marvin Shilmer's blog, http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/watchtower-bait-switch.html)

  I. The Society tells us that there is no organization to join. Here are two examples of this from the literature.

  

  II. A letter from the Society's legal dept says just the opposite. Here is an excerpt followed by the letter.

  "From the date of your baptism and your joining the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, you...agreed to submit to the rules and proceedures of the ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses." (bold and underlining added.)

  

  
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  18

  Media Expose's on WT Abuse Coverups

  by Christ Alone in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  obviously this has been covered to death, but i haven't seen a comprehensive list of stories produced by the media that have been done on the recent abuse cover ups of the watchtower.

  today i saw this news story from australia, and i had never seen it.

  i wanted to create a thread that can constantly be updated as the media exposes the practices of the watchtower of covering up abuse.

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  ScenicViewer

  From Canada, here is an excellent Fifth Estate news magazine report.

  Part 1

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIgz6mmfkU

  Part 2

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cPTijd4NzY

  Part 3

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-UrESDzN8

  Edit: Sorry about that Christ Alone. I temporarily forgot how to embed a link. I went back and fixed it, but you had already embedded them too. You're fast!
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  34

  "Millions Now Living Will Never Die"

  by drewcoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i understand that the judge's book "millions now living will never die" has undergone a slight of hand change of title to "millions now living may never die.".

  where could i find the new title in print in any wt publication?

  i do not have a wt library anymore, and would like to show my mom how they have changed the name of the book in their references to it..

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  ScenicViewer

  Proof Conclusive That Millions Now Living Will Never Die was the subtitle of The Harp of God starting with the earliest edition of that book in 1921.

  After the predictions of 1925 failed to come true, that subtitle was dropped and The Harmony of the Ten Primary Bible Teachings was added to later editions, I believe beginning in 1928.

  
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  45

  Opening the bible at random - once spoken of approvingly, now superstitious!

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the latest december 15th study edition of the watchtower opens with an intriguing article entitled "beware of superstitious use of the bible".. as an example of what constitutes "superstitious use" of the bible, it has this to say.... .

  "perhaps a more common misuse of the bible is the practice of bibliomancy.

  it refers to opening at random a book, often the bible, and reading the text that first meets the eye in the belief that those words will provide needed guidance.

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  ScenicViewer

  One more example.

  This topic has intrigued me. I had never heard of Bibliomancy, and it surprises me a little that the Society would print encouraging experiences involving the practice if it is to be condemned. Is there any other superstitious practice that has brought such favorable results that Watchtower was moved to write about it for all to read?

  At any rate, here is one more 'encouoraging experience' involving the practice,

  (W 1-1-1981, pp17-18)
  19 God’s acceptance and blessing continue on this preaching work, including the important house-to-house activity of locating and helping persons. As just one indication, a minister who visits congregations in a large district accepted an invitation to accompany a Christian in Maryland on a call to conduct a Bible study. He says:
  
  “I asked the householder what motivated her to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses. She said that often she would open the Bible at random, point her finger at a verse and read it. But she seldom could understand what she read.
  
  “One day she was very depressed over serious family problems. Again she opened her Bible and picked out a verse. She could not understand it, and in her depression and disappointment began to cry. She prayed to God to send her someone to help her understand his Word. Just as she said that, the doorbell rang. Answering it she found a Witness, who began, ‘Would you like to understand the Bible?’ The householder pulled her inside and quickly a regular study was begun.”

  What does this experience show? According to the account a couple of things stand out.

  - That “God’s acceptance and blessing continue on [the] preaching work.” The positive result seems to have brought Jehovah's approval of the practice in this case.

  - The angels are apparently in approval too, since when the Woman prayed to God to send someone, the Witnesses immediately rang her doorbell. I remember reading that the angels are used in directing, or carrying out, such things.

  A great topic.