i need a vent guys, i hope you all don't mind!
i'm not sure what has happened to me today of all days, but i just can't fight back the tears.
i guess it must be the pretence fatigue kicking in.
Hey Matty, I feel for you. My family and I have been out for almost a year. It has been a hard year. We lost our entire circle of friends, my daughter lost her very close best friend. It is like a death in the family, I swear. Post where you are from and maybe you can hook up with some other XJW for support.
About the school, don't tell them you want to quit, just cancel at the last minute a few times, they will take you off.
what should i do with my books .
we are in the process of buying another house and are on the move again.
packing stuff up, chucking it out, selling the surplus you know the story.
WAY TO GO LB. I kept copies of some things it's good for research for counter-cult. Burning the rest of the stuff. I had several copies of books and stuff I threw it all out. Our garbage pickup person and the whole company is owned and operated by witnesses. I was kind of hoping they would see the stuff in the garbage. Not that I was trying to make a statement or anything!
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this is very interesting,.
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html.
Fasicinating! I always suspected what was found in those studies. I thought maybe all the nuts just lived near our congregation.
i have small children.
i was raised a witness, so i never celebrated holidays.
now, i don't go to meetings, don't agree that the watchtower is jehovahs sole channel of communication.
This year will be my kids first Christmas ages 18 and 14. I am really looking forward to it and so are they. The witnesses always say the kids don't miss it.....yeah right. They are so full of it! We are going to visit my sister and her family. She is so excited that were are coming to visit here and celebrate. I grew up with Christmas it was a wonderful time for the family to get together eat buy eachother gifts. I have nothing but fond memories of christmas. I became a witness right after I got married. My husband's mother is a witness and he stopped having christmas when he was arouond 12. Christmas for him is not good memories, his parents would fight because his mom would always spend too much money and his dad would scream and yell. so to him Christmas was more of a good riddance. My husband is having a little difficulty with celebrating although he is going along with it. I don't think it's bad to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. Even if we don't know the day at the very least we can celebrate the fact that he was born and came to earth to die for us. I think it's worth celebrating. And I'm really looking forward to it. I just wish I would have done it 17 years ago.
while i'm not a regular as much as i used to be (maybe get to the hall 10 times a year), i always give praise and thanks to jehovah and his son jesus as requested in the bible on the appropriate day.
i have never missed a memorial.
whether or not i agree with everything the gb or watchtower puts out or says, is irrelevant.
. The memorial is important, but the command was that as often as you eat and drink to do this in remembrance of me. He didn't say one specific day. Also by partaking of the emblems it is how you identify yourself as one of Christ's followers, at the JW memorial everyone just sits there and lets the bread and wine pass them by, it is denying your lord. That is why I will never attend a memorial at a Kingdom Hall. As for the holidays being pagan? Something is pagan only if it is pagan to you and in your heart. Read Romans 14:2-10. Remember we are now Free in Christ.
2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
as you know or don't know i'm in the process of doing that slow fade thing.
the only meeting i attend is the sunday meeting.
(so i can still talk to family and friends) well sunday i asked the school overseer if he would please take me off the school.
Congratulations, you are one step closer! I have two questions for you. Isn't it hard to sit through the talks and WT study? I got to the point where I just wanted to stand up and scream! What made you decide it wasn't the truth?
i was reading the post about the profanity and the deleting of posts etc.
i've been coming to this board for about a year and a half.
i only looked/read for about the first 6-9 months.
lv4fer originally it stood for "live for ever" after I learned the truth about the truth I was going to change it but then someone said it could stand for love for ever so I left it.
i was invited to be a guest speaker at the saturday night aa speaker's meeting.
this meeting usually has a large crowd and they get somebody with longtime sobriety to come up and tell his story of "what i used to be like, what happened, and what i'm like now" as an example for others.
i'll have eight years in january, so i guess that makes me fairly longtime.. i told them:.
WAY TO GO!
i was reading the post about the profanity and the deleting of posts etc.
i've been coming to this board for about a year and a half.
i only looked/read for about the first 6-9 months.
I was reading the post about the profanity and the deleting of posts etc. I've been coming to this board for about a year and a half. I only looked/read for about the first 6-9 months. I found this forum to be informative and enlightening. I was however offended occasionaly by the language and or topics sexual etc., I then would try to stay away from post made by those who habitually made posts of that sort. When I first started lurking here I was still an active JW, although I had a few doubts. The topics about the UN and the Silentlambs really added fuel to my fire and gave me the courage to investigate further. Because of my further investigations/bible study my family and I are free. I guess what I'm trying to say is. If you want Witnesses to find the real truth you need to keep it reasonably clean. Because if you are a witness you are going to be totally turned off by foul language, explicit sexual content and then you will only go along with what the WT teaches that all "Wordly" people are bad. We need to continue to keep topics running about the WT errors, changes, there are so many It would never get boring. Remember there are new people coming in all the time. They may not know about the UN thing, Silentlambs, constant flip flops of doctrine, error of doctrine. These are what we need to be showing them. Not a bunch of "APOSTATES" having cussing matches.
a close friend of mine, in fact a lurker here, got a call last night inviting him to a jc meeting, accused of apostasy.
he would like to avoid this because of the things it would complicate, and would like to just be left alone.
i know in the past i have read comments of some who have threatened legal action in this situation.
Here is the letter that I mailed off Return Receipt. I hope it helps
This letter is to notify you in writing that you have no authority or jurisdiction over our family and any member thereof. We also have no desire to meet with any self-appointed tribunal (1Cor4:3,4) . The only person we have to answer to is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. In all honestly, we would simply like to be left alone. According to the Watchtowers web site those who simply cease to be involved with the faith are not shunned. That is exactly what we have done we have ceased to be involved with the faith. We have not committed any wrongdoing or immoral acts that would warrant appearance before any committee and/or shunning which I might add some in the congregation have taken it upon themselves to judge us and our kids and shun us. This is a very serious thing as Romans 14:10-12 points out.
We are offended by your letter, which implied that we in some way could be guilty of apostasy. Whoever has carried such rumors or claims is in extreme error and guilty themselves of making false charges, a very serious offense. Jehovah tells us in 2 John 9-11, everyone that pushes ahead (goes beyond) and does not remain in the teachings of Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching (the teaching of Jesus Christ) is the one that has both the Father and the Son. Then John tells us that anyone who goes beyond the teachings of Christ, we should have nothing to do with.
Let us make this perfectly clear: We do not go beyond the teachings of Christ as outlined in Gods Word. If Jesus and the apostles didnt teach it, we dont believe it! We as Christians are trying to live our life in accordance with the scriptures. However, we are very concerned about teachings of the Watchtower, Bible, & Tract Society that go way beyond the Word of God. They have made up doctrines, gospels, rules, regulations, performance demands for eternal life, prophecies, predictions, dates, modern-day applications and revelations, and taken positions on medical and other matters that Jesus never mentioned.
Additionally, we want to make it perfectly clear that any action taken by any persons against our family will subject themselves to personal liability, we will hold them personally responsible, and any and all legal actions will be directed to them, personally and collectively. We wish to warn you that historically, the Watchtower Society will not back you up legally, and will refuse all liability, and will allow the local elders to suffer the consequences of their actions.
We have no problem with the Auberry Congregation or any of the people who attend that congregation. Many members of that congregation have been our friends for many years and are trying to do what they have been taught sincere Christians should do. Our only disagreement is with certain actions (some illegal), policies, teachings, and writings contained in publications produced, and oral teachings promulgated either individually or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses and its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. and the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., and the International Bible Students Association. Certain teachings are not contained in the Word of God and are therefore a pushing ahead, a going beyond the teachings of Christ!
If you decide to take any judicial action against our family, there are certain things of which we must be notified, and which must be clarified, before we would agree to meet with any self-appointed judicial committee. These items are as follows:
1. We shall be notified in writing of the time, place, and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.
2. We shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting; the Auberry Congregations of Jehovahs Witnesses, the Governing body of Jehovahs Witnesses, or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. and the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., and the International Bible Students Association, or any agency not named.
3. If any other agency, other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed us they are acting for, is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, we will consider the judicial committee as acting in their behalf.
4. We shall be notified in writing of any accusations against us; the names of persons making such accusations, and the substance of any alleged evidence.
5. We shall be notified in writing of any and all of our rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.
6. We shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.
7. We shall be allowed to have one person of our choice present during all meetings between any of our family and the judicial committee, as an observer.
8. During the meetings with the judicial committee, we and or our observers, will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
9. We will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to us in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
10. If the judicial committee is acting only for the Auberry Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the Auberry Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, we may take any appropriate legal action.
11. We may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.
12. Before we will meet with a judicial committee or an appeal committee you must notify us in writing of the names of all the members of the judicial committee or appeal committee, and who each one represents.
13. There shall be not contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of meetings with them. If we determine that there is any contact communication, or attempt on the part of any of the members of the judicial committee or anyone acting of their behalf to, in anyway prejudice or sway the appeal committee, we will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.
14. We shall be notified in writing of any and all of our rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.
15. We shall be allowed to have one person of our choice present during all meetings between any one of our family and the appeal committee.
16. During the meetings with the appeal committee, we, or our observers will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
17. We will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to us in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
18. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action.
19. Whoever the appeal committee has stated that it is acting for, it is enjoined from notifying any other agency. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the exact agency that they represent, I may take appropriate legal action.
20. I understand that if any one of our family is disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee, that we are, at that point no longer considered by such committee or appeal committee to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses. We also know such agencies may consider making a public announcement of their action. Any statements, even implied, in such announcement may be considered liable and subject to appropriate legal action. Any mention by speeches, or talks, or teaching to convince, coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action to that individual; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovahs Witnesses to treat us differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovahs Witnesses, to be a serious violation of our civil rights and we may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that we deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching to coerce by implied or actual threat or to encourage by private counsel of suggestion to any present Jehovahs Witnesses to shun or avoid us, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with us or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental mortgage, or any other legal agreement that we may presently have with them, we may consider such to be an infringement of free trade any may initiate appropriate legal action.
21. We consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and ourselves and the appeal committee and ourselves to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by us to be a breach of that privilege, and may result in legal action. This includes any announcement beyond the fact of disfellowshipping; speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral public or private.
We respectfully await your written response.
