Posts by saltyoldlady

39

Awesome quotes from JWN posters

by jay88 in

jw
friends

i will start it off with-thetrueone.

"postulating religionists are really illusionists by using suggestive words to accomplish a state of believability.

".

saltyoldlady

I personally will never forget the post Outlaw made - we need the picture here, anybody? I don't know how to do that.

But the quote was something to the effect "Don't eat a bucketload of shit just because there are a few kernels of corn in it."

81

How Many JWs Have You known Who Have Commited Suicide?

by Was New Boy in

jw
friends

james olsen and richaed wheellock both bethelites.. rich templet.

rich and james out of guilt, richard out of depression.. james and rich were both under 30 years old.. after richard wheelock (a bethel heavy) killed himself the society changed it's stand on whether suicides could be resurrectioned or not..

saltyoldlady

I haven't kept count over the years but it has been way too many - even one is too many - but I mean there have been several. One case I remember that was especially horrible was the brother that killed his wife and two children - and then after leaving a suicide note killed himself also. He explained that he knew they would all be resurrected to paradise and the current system was just too difficult for all of them. It was "just better this way." And the hideous thing is one can easily see why he reasoned like that considering our belief systems we were taught. Scary results for what we considered "beautiful" material to present to the public. Mental illness was of course involved but the concept of the Paradise earth can be misconstrued by the mentally ill as a legitimate excuse for such heinous crimes.

30

Did I handle this okay?

by headisspinning in

jw
friends

i finished 'crisis of conscience'... i am just reeling.

if any one book has changed my life, then this one is definitely it.

it's incredible really - two weeks ago i was so confused and disturbed and felt like my whole life had been turned on it's end but that book made such a difference for me.

saltyoldlady

I think your letter is GREAT! You tried very diligently to help her understand by being understanding yourself of her position. And I like the fact that you laid out the facts for her - that it is the organization that is dragging their feet about exercising loving-kindness. That helps to open her eyes even though it may not in fact be the most accurate representation of your position right now, but the truth is she is not ready to deal with your internal changes yet, either. So slow and easy is the best course for the moment is my thought on the matter. The day for exposure to Ray Franz will come - pushing it too soon will kill its chance of acceptance. Take your time - she is in distress because she honestly believes you will be destroyed if Armageddon were to come - makes our hearts sad to see them blinded by this deception but just keep praying on the matter and Jehovah will open the doors to their realization they have been deluded - but He will do it at the best time and you and I are not capable of discerning that one. Patience on that matter will win the war. Just keep exercising love toward her - it has the ability to melt all opposition given time. I am so happy she has softened a bit already.

Another book I thought was just great was Don Cameron's Captives of a Concept. It helps you understand what you are up against in trying to open people's eyes and it is quick and easy to read, very short in comparison to Ray Franz's works. Other treasures for me were Carl Olof Jonnson's Gentile Times Reconsidered - be sure to get the latest edition which I believe is the 4th one. He is another individual who stayed cool, calm, and detached inspite of the witch hunt mentality and slander hurled his way. While I haven't come to personally agree with all of his positions, he offers abundant proof that the 2520 years did not conclude in 1914 which is the basis for so much WTS belief. And then the books by Edmond C. Gruss were also treasures for me - especially Jehovah's Witnesses - Their claims, doctrinal changes and prophetic speculation. What does the record show? Very very well presented - mountains of evidence that your husband might especially like investigating in view of his former position. It results in one realizing we have had anything BUT the truth on ever so many matters and may help him feel much better about his change in circumstances. It is never easy to step down from a position of honor such as he had. I also found Edmond C. Gruss historical survey of the Four Presidents of the Watch Tower Society well done, objective and informative.

It is a thrill to watch your progress as you continue learning and to see how well you are handling the difficult curves you have had to negotiate. May Jehovah and His Son, our Lord Christ Jesus continue blessing your course. Love, Salty

43

What changes have you noticed in the Witness

by d in

i have noticed are more angrier then when i was a child in the 90's and that they seem more uptight.what changes have you seen?.

saltyoldlady

Just prior to my exit which is a little over a year ago now - I saw a group that was despondent, zombie-like, going thru the motions but lacking any fervor or delight in the "Good News" - giving lip service but the hearts were far, far away. They appeared like a group of heavy-laden donkeys, some actually balking, a few braying, but for the most part just plodding along fast enough to avoid the "stick." It was very very sad to me - the older ones were disappointed the end hadn't come, the middle aged were busy trying to make ends meet and hadn't time for spiritual concerns, meeting attendance was the max for their efforts, and maybe 2 hours a month Field Service if they could fake it somehow at the coffee shop, and for the most part the young ones seemed sullen and withdrawn, many disappeared entirely. There were exceptions of course but they were few and far between per my experience.

And probably the biggest change was a total lack of new converts - the baptismal lines were 97% made up of children that had been raised up in the WTS, with maybe about 3 adults out of 100 that were actually found in the territory or thru incidental witnessing, friend of a friend type stuff. In fact I think I've made that estimate too high in truth - the ones coming in were not found in the territory - they were most often relations of someone else who was already in the WTS.

45

I Am Craving Bacon/Fatback Grease & Corn Bread

by snowbird in

that's a fact.. even though i'm not supposed to think about such fare.. syl.

saltyoldlady

Palmtree - Tofu and Pita Bread - as a substitute for bacon fat and cornbread? Forget it. In fact YUCK! (Sorry, I actually like both of them but they just won't replace the craving for grease and cornbread - never ever!)

Bacon fat craving means you are in need of more saturated fat in the diet - and yes, we do NEED some saturated fat. Too many people eliminate it these days. The cornbread is a great source of Magnesium - much missing in today's diets and magnesium deficiency is one of the major causes of Heart attacks and Cancer. We need a balance between unsaturated and saturated types of fat - today's emphasis is overboard on the unsaturated side.

Plus the research behind fats and cholesterol are much skewed. It is not the fat per se but the rancidity factor of the fat that causes the problems. Good fresh butter, cream, or bacon fat - not even sausage CAUSE high cholesterol. (Ala info I learned from Jeffrey Bland, PhD = piled higher and deeper!) Plus research shows those with moderately high cholesterol levels - say 240 but a proper ratio between the high density/low density factors live longer. Those with low cholesterol shorten their lives. So three cheers for fatback grease and cornbread. The French love the high fats too but they wash it down with the best of wine and don't suffer the heart attack level you have been convinced will happen if you indulge yourself in the good things of life.

And who was it that made the crack about a 58 year old being too old for the Internet? I'm nearing 78 so you are making a false assumption, lad or lass - whomever you may be. Many blessings to ya! Salty and PS - don't eliminate the salt from your diet either! LOL

18

I need some scriptual skill Here (what is the good news?)

by TheLoveDoctor in

please give me scriptures as to what the 1st century christians were two preach including the body of christian teachings at the time.

then we can compare that to what gb says the good news is and why one must answer 80 or so questions.

it will also help me with the ability to prove why i do not wish to be in the door to door work including any scriptual proofs that could be used to show not all should be preaching..

saltyoldlady

Boy - we are beginning to get a nice list here - wow jgnat, you did a lot of work. Let me add one more since I am currently working on the 1st letter of Timothy - 1:15 "Faithful and deservinhg of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." In verse 16 we get the info that "those who rest their faith on him will receive everlasting life." The same thought has been given above more than once but in summary a major part of the "good news" is Jesus Christ gives us LIFE, the means to everlasting life. Without him and a knowledge of him we would be limited to just the few years of existence we now experience in this system of things. John 12:47 tells us he did not come to judge the world but to save the world. John 16:33 Take courage because I have conquered the world and he tells us we too will be able to conquer the world with our faith in him and obedience to his commandment to be loving one another even as he loved us. John 10:27 states "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever by destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand, because the Father has entrusted them to me, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father. He is greater than all else." Another translation of this passage indicates these sheep are "precious" to the Father via the words "what my Father has given me is something greater than all other things." Either rendition will do as both add insight that is correct except of course the Father is the One who is greater than all else if we were to get technical here. And at the end of John Chapter 17:26 we are given the good news that the love with which the Father loved Christ, His Son, may also be in us and we will be in union with the Christ. The ramifications of that one are immense - worthy of meditation.

4

Who Most Closely Resembles Ray Franz in Terms of Beliefs, Conclusions and Personality?

by headisspinning in

jw
friends

okay, so i am a born-in and as many of you know almost finished reading 'crisis of conscience'... .

it disturbs me greatly that ray has passed on because i would love to talk to him.. i guess, i am so used to following someone or something that i feel like i'm floundering... i don't know... i guess i really want someone to tell me 'the way'.. from ray's writing i would be more than happy to seriously examine the conclusions he came to and his own beliefs.. i just don't know which way to turn now.

from reading his book i greatly respect him and damnit... why did he have to leave?.

saltyoldlady

Headspinning - Continue on and read In Search of Christian Freedom - he gives you many of the answers there that you are seeking.

I also was fortunate to have gone through what you are prior to his death - back in 2006 for me and I have a few letters from him. For he and his wife (and she by the way is still with us so you may be able to write her - I have not) he found satisfaction in just holding a weekly bible study session in his home for a few other like-minded souls where they could pray, sing praises together, and engage in "real" Bible discussion. He was offered high level positions by more than one outfit or perhaps I should say "organized" religious group but he turned all of these down. He just focused his time in serving the Lord in the best way possible at any given moment and that will differ greatly for all of us because we have differing talents, experiences, and gifts.

As to another like-minded person to Ray I am excited to have discovered this week that Rheinhard Lengtadt is holding similar Bible discussions with a group of ex-jw's and per my source, he has now left the WTS. She used to attend his studies and when I expressed the fact I would LOVE doing that she promised to get in touch with him and take me up there. He has to be way up in years now because when I knew him before in the 80's he was older than myself and still within the fold giving oodles of talks. I remember his coming to Sequim my first time to ever meet him, and then we traveled all the way down to Lacey, Washington to hear another of his talks, about three hours away. He lived in the northend of Seattle back then. At that time I had not read any of Ray's books but I knew he was SPECIAL. Turns out he was one of the three that prepared the Aid to Bible Understanding. In the 80's witchhunt Ray, and Ed Dunlap were DF'd and Rheinhard was sent to the Pacific Northwest on a $600/Month stipend (so generous - and I am sarcastic with that comment). The WTS wanted some more research out of him that he was currently working on at that time I have been told and then they got rid of him, effectively, though he gave them no opportunity for DF'ing.

I am curious to learn what the current situation is and what has happened in the intervening years. I had another friend down in another congregation that kept constant contact with him and offered to take me for a visit at that time. She and her husband who had passed away by that time used to give him free room and board to help him in his ministry when they lived back in Minnesota I think and all of them were many years younger at least 40 years younger - she and her husband were just raising their family at that time so this was well before he was invited to Bethel. Sadly I never took her up on the offer because I knew I wanted to talk about the 607/1914 issue and that he wouldn't feel free to discuss that with her there in order to not stumble her. I had already made up my mind by then it was one HUGE error on the WTS's part. I realize this is too far away for you and your hubby to come but don't give up. I am sure you will find others of similar caliber in your own area. The numbers of spiritual minded people leaving are growing by leaps and bounds. Salty

45

Can I bring my own stuff to the memorial?

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

let's say i am an anointed one, but i don't like the taste of the crackers and wine the congregation got the last time.

can i bring my own wine and crackers to partake tonight?

yes or no?

saltyoldlady

Have to tell you a funny experience I had one time - they passed the bread but it was in BIG pieces. I thought oh help - if I take one then I will have to eat all of it and it will take me all night - plus it was the homemade type - tough as a board. Well I put the plate down on my lap - could see everybody looking at me with that "what is she going to do?" expression of alarm and horror - it was bad enough I dared to partake - now I go against all protocol and break the break for myself - and it was so tough I almost needed a sledge hammer to break it up - took both hands and a lot of muscle to get myself a small piece and there was no way I could chew it - I had to gum it to death until it finally softened - the wine doesn't get around for a long time after we get the bread so it didn't help much except to swallow the doughy wad eventually. The next year I convinced them to get the commercial kosher style wafers. Big improvement! LOL.

189

Does God speak to you? HOW?

by Quentin in

an answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.

however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?

god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.

saltyoldlady

PSac - Thank you for your sharing here - your experience was very moving and I appreciate it greatly. Salty

189

Does God speak to you? HOW?

by Quentin in

an answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.

however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?

god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.

saltyoldlady

Does God speak to me and if so how? Well, my personal experience is that He does speak to me - but in the same ways as many others have expressed - thru the beauties of creation, thru the playful antics of his creatures, thru the happiness of small children and sooner7nc - your experience brought tears of joy to my eyes as I imagined just how you must have felt. And there are just countless other ways He speaks to me too - sometimes I feel He is speaking to me thru the scriptures, sometimes He even reaches my heart thru some of you, believe it or not.

And no - I have never heard his audible voice myself - though the Bible obviously has many examples of when that has occurred. I do have friends - at least one that I can think of recently that said he heard God speaking to him - and he was surprised God had a "young voice" - he expected God to have a deep voice like Br Sydlik. Well I have never had an experience like that myself - think it was very real to him and I don't wish to pass judgment on whether it was God or not. That's not mine to wonder or worry about.

But I could share another experience in which I felt God "used me" to speak an answer to a Sister's problems. Maybe this doesn't qualify for inclusion here but I offer it anyway - as another possible way God speaks using our fellowmen. This sister has had many children in the past and had eclampsia nearly every time. It seemed her eclampsia was becoming more and more serious and she was pregnant once again - think this was the 11th child but not sure of the numbers. She prayed diligently to Jehovah for help. I had never met her before - she lived about two hours drive away from me but we each had a mutual friend in a local congregation here. The local friend suggested she should come and see me since I am involved or used to be involved in the healing arts. So she called me that evening. As the phone rang I had just set down the book The Doctor's Report by John Ellis and had just that very moment concluded reading chapter 7 on the subject eclampsia in pregnancy - its causes, effects and prevention - prior to that evening I had never even heard of the subject before. It was almost unbelievable to me that she should call on that subject at that time - conincidence - possibly - Vitamin B6 was the answer he gives. It may not work in every case but it works in many many cases and I couldn't help but think about sooner7nc above too just now. Anyway I told her about some of the bad effects - one of them mental retardation and she replied - yes, I know - my last child has that problem due to the eclampsia the doctors told her. So I suggested she get herself a copy of the book and talk to her doctor about the info in it. She was pregnant at the time - about in the 4th or 5th month. She began the recommended supplementation immediately and for the first time she produced a child without the eclampsia - coincidence again - possibly. But she was so happy and the whole congregation was so happy that all of them came to see me. That child is now an adult. She felt God had used me to answer her prayer - He knew just which of His servants had the information and the timing was incredible. It is a joy to be used that way. Subjective speculations - possibly. But I have had more than one experience of a similar vein even for myself in searching for information. This is one powerful way I feel God uses to communicate to us and give us joy at the same time.