They had a rewritten edition of the "you can live forever in paradise on earth" book, the original was from 1982, and in 1989 they made a new edition with changes about the resurrection of the people of Sodom & Gomorrah
Hoffnung
Hoffnung
JoinedPosts by Hoffnung
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Changed or Misprinted?
by iamwhoiam inso..who here has examples of where the society printed something in a book or magazine...and then when a newer version of the book or bound volume came out...they changed what they wrote to cover up a mistake or to further a doctrinal change?.
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Sloppy Scholarship and 3rd Rate Love (3/1 WT)
by metatron inthis watchtower is supposed to help people identify true christianity, relative to their cult standards (march 1, 2012).
of course, they use the name 'jehovah' as a club to fend off other claimants - why does it not surprize me that they self reference this silliness by quoting the new world translation and its wrongful insertion of 'jehovah' in romans 10: 13?
no logic here..... and for proof that christians used the name, they offer an unreferenced quote from jewish sources in regard to burning christian books.
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Hoffnung
Romans 10:13 is a tricky one. In the Greek Manuscripts of this verse Jehovah or the tetragrammaton is not there. As the hebrew versions are translations of the greek text, that can not be used as a valid argument. If it is not in the original greek text, it is not in the hebrew translation of the same greek text either.
Unfortunately that is not all. In Romans 10:11, Paul writes: "For the Scripture says:..." , and verse 13 is clearly a quote from an old testament verse. Actually Romans 10 is full of OT verse quotes. In the original OT verse, the tetragrammaton is definitely there. The question is: did Paul use an OT verse and applied to Jesus? The context seems to confirm this (verses 5 to 10), the more so as until today, no greek text with Jehovah inserted in this verse could be found. But as it is also a OT quote, I prefer to leave it out of the debate and point to other more definite mistranslations, which are there in abundance. Just some 0,02$
Hoffnung
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Wish I didnt know....Part 2 My Story
by Wishididntknow inafter a terrible break up and being away from the congregation for about 10yrs i started to think about coming back.
i couldnt even watch the news anymore because of the termendous anxiety it would cause.
i felt that there was a target on my back and the big a would surely come before i could get my act together.
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Hoffnung
Just read both parts. wow. What a bumpy ride. I guess reading others people storys can help you. If you have the time, read Ray Franz 2 books, crisis of conscience and in search of christian freedom. they have a very balanced approach
Hoffnung
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Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
by weskerbouts insix days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.
the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).
(i have an addiction to pornography.
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Hoffnung
Hi Weskerbout,
Welcome, and sorry to read about your sorrow.
What you can do:
- Realize you just connected to a new set of friends. Keep on posting here how you feel and what you think. Some of us were once where you also are now. Many can relate to your feelings.
- Realize also that you mistook your elders for shepherds. You asked them for help, and they kicked you out in a cold dark world, sure you would be alone out there. They are no sheperds, they are powerfreaks, who got high on the ecstasy of ruining your personal life. (once you realize this, it easy enough to find out how you get reinstated, while hiding your true feelings for those hypocrites). I find it quite shocking they form a JC and disfellowship for viewing P, because many elders have problems with that themselves. I would imagine the could handle that without a JC. You were so honest to come for it, can't them bastards see that? Are you sure none of them had a kind of envy against you, and saw this as an excellent occasion to get rid of you? If you feel better in another church, why not. just do not replace one high-control religion with another one.
- Get enrolled in social activities, sports and alike, do not stay on your own. read the many experiences of others on this board, you will find indications for your way out. Now you took the big step to go search on the internet, do a lot of research.
- Do NOT write any letters in the next few months to the congregation. Please be aware you are emotionally unstable at the moment (absolutely normal), and you will regret any big decisions you take. If you want to be reinstated, you will have to play the most humble person in the universe for at least a year, going to most of the meetings with a colored study watchtower, being ignored by all.
- Enjoy your freedom, with moderation. Don't do shocking things, but go to concerts, theather, find a hobby, music instrument, drawing, etc...
Hang in there. You will make it.
Hoffnung
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Regarding Acts 15 and a "Governing Body"
by Ding ini couldn't find a window on which to post in xtreemlyconfused17's acts 15 thread, so i'm responding here.
some elder claimed that acts 15 shows the existence of a first century governing body.. quite the opposite!.
let's back up to acts 13. there, the holy spirit called saul (paul) and barnabas to missionary work.
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Hoffnung
Most of the questions you ask are answered in a somewhat older thread:
To answer some of your questions directly:
1) Basically in the 1st century every congregation was its own little group without much oversight, just a local group of older men. Jesus never organized a religion. Paul was not a travelling overseer, but a missionary, ordained by Holy Spirit and not by men (as you wrote yourself - a contextual reading of how Paul was called to serve is telling - see 4+5).
2) No, he did not. Peter was used by Jesus to unlock christianity for Samaritans and the nations. also see answer 1.
3) yes, as described in answer 1)
4+5) Let us read the verses: "Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Bar′na·bas as well as Sym′e·on who was called Ni′ger, and Lucius of Cy·re′ne, and Man′a·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. 2 As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar′na·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them."3 Then they fasted and prayed and laid their hands upon them and let them go.
The Holy spirit decided to send Barnabas and Saul, and the 3 others (Symeon, Lucius and Manaen) who were with them, let them go. They were not sent by the congregation, but by the Holy Spirit. Not much room for interpretation here. Furthermore, the words of the holy spirit was directed specifically to the 5 prophets and teachers. "They" clearly refers only to these 5, and not to the congregation.The rest is answered well enough in other threads, as the one I mentioned above.
For the following sentence, you did not provide any basis: "So what we have described in Acts is a doctrinal dispute that is referred to a central body for a decision. Then the decision is conveyed to the believers who assemble in various congregations."
The truth is: the doctrinal dispute is referred to the local congregation from where the problem started.
Many scriptures in the bible indicate there was no central authority in the christian congregations. To be honest, if they were indeed individually guided by Holy Spirit, there was no need for extra guidance. Revelation 2 and 3 point out that Jesus is guiding the congregations. If there was a central body, would he not have said something about it, like: you are following their lead well? or alike, but he did not.
Nowadays, would you take your disputes to the next meeting of the governing body, and would tell them they are the originator of the problems in your congregation? That is exactly what you are saying that Paul and Barnabas did. Very unlikely.
Would you consider it normal to tell the pope off in front of others because he is not having lunch with non-catholics? Because that is what Paul did with Peter.
Some thoughts maybe worth your considerations.
Hoffnung
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what do u think of ACTS 15?
by xtreemlyconfused17 in(please pardon my english quotes from the bible.
i'm trying to translate from swahili, i cant find my english bible lol).
so i had my bible study yesterday and my teacher came with an elder.
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Hoffnung
Hi XTREMELYCONFUSED,
Just posted this in another related thread from Ding, some points you might want to show the person you study with.
Some supporting details from Acts 15. If we would suppose Paul went to see the Governing Body of the that time, let us see who was part of that comite, and the ideas they fostered. Acts 15:5 reads: "Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”
So the socalled Governing Body had Pharisees amongst them that clearly propagated sectarian ideas...
Now maybe some smart cookie says: they were part of the congregation but not of the Governing Body, as the meeting started only in verse 6. Well, let us read what happened in that meeting, verse 6 reads: "And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair. 7 Now when much disputing had taken place..."
Clearly quite a big part of the apostles and older men had the same ideas as the Pharisees, otherwise there would not be such a dispute.
Do you like the idea to be part of an organization that is led by Pharisees from the very beginnings? If you don`t like the idea, maybe Acts 15 is not a great support for the Governing Body concept.
Just my 0,02$
Hoffnung
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Regarding Acts 15 and a "Governing Body"
by Ding ini couldn't find a window on which to post in xtreemlyconfused17's acts 15 thread, so i'm responding here.
some elder claimed that acts 15 shows the existence of a first century governing body.. quite the opposite!.
let's back up to acts 13. there, the holy spirit called saul (paul) and barnabas to missionary work.
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Hoffnung
Some supporting details from Acts 15. If we would suppose Paul went to see the Governing Body of the that time, let us see who was part of that comite, and the ideas they fostered. Acts 15:5 reads: "Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”
So the socalled Governing Body had Pharisees amongst them that clearly propagated sectarian ideas...
Now maybe some smart cookie says: they were part of the congregation but not of the Governing Body, as the meeting started only in verse 6. Well, let us read what happened in that meeting, verse 6 reads: "And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair. 7 Now when much disputing had taken place..."
Clearly quite a big part of the apostles and older men had the same ideas as the Pharisees, otherwise there would not be such a dispute.
Do you like the idea to be part of an organization that is led by Pharisees from the very beginnings? If you don`t like the idea, maybe Acts 15 is not a great support for the Governing Body concept.
Just my 0,02$
Hoffnung
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Our videos on WT 15.04.12 - page 12
by Motema Bolingo inon our website "aggelia", see our new video.. versions available on 27th januari : french - english - dutch.
we hope to add german - italian - spanish.
http://www.aggelia.be/videos/tg0412_intro.html.
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Hoffnung
Good job Jacques. There is a wealth of information on your site
Hoffnung
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Recent Belgium TV expose' about JWs on YouTube. Need a French translator to tell us basically what was said
by AndersonsInfo invoici (enfin...) sur you tube le reportage le monde parfait de jehovah (diffuse par la television belge rtbf (la une) devoir d'enquete le 23/09/2009).
pour se conformer au format exige par yt, c'est decoupe en 7 parties d'une duree de +/- 10 min.
le monde parfait de jehovah (partie 1#7) 9:42. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc41ieqjveo.
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Hoffnung
bump
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2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis
by jwfacts inthe 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.
a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.
as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.
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Hoffnung
"As a matter of fact Acts 20:28 arguably makes the most sense if one supposes that the divine name stood in the original, so that it read: "Be shepherds of the church of Jehovah, which he bought with the blood of his own""
??????
I think you just proved that it is incorrect to insert Jehovah here, as you need another addition so that the text makes sense.
So that everybody can check: Literal text from the Emphatic Diaglott - printed by the WTBTS (spaces indicate a separate greek word is used):
"to feed the congregation of the Lord which he purchased through the blood of the own"
Hoffnung