Posts by fulltimestudent

19

ESPN reassigns commentator Robert Lee over 'name coincidence'

by freemindfade in

wish this was fake news, but its not.

for everyone thinking whats the big deal with marxists anarchists forcibly pulling down old offensive statues, this is the slippery slope we are walking onto... fools... please read 1984 people.. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41022954.

espn has removed a sports commentator from covering an american football game in charlottesville because he has the same name as civil war general robert e lee.. stash: /intesoft-inc.appspot.com/post/c782436dc86c4489b3948663ffc029db.html

fulltimestudent

Siiigh!!!!

10

Escaping from the YHWH/JESUS prison

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

a poster recently inferred that i was never a jw, but was only on this site to spread a 'political' dogma.

not true!.

anyway, cleaning up some old files this morning, i found an old 'story of life' post that i made (i think) on another xjw site.

fulltimestudent

A poster recently inferred that I was never a JW, but was only on this site to spread a 'political' dogma. Not true!

Anyway, cleaning up some old files this morning, I found an old 'story of life' post that I made (I think) on another XJW site. So here's a 'sortof' explanation ow how I left the YHWH/JESUS prison farm:

Somewhere, the other day, I heard Kenny Rogers singing, 'Lucille' and was instantly transported back to a time when my long imprisonment in the prison of Yahweh and Jesus was coming to an end.

In the last two years of my Christian enslavement, I somehow became conscious of the song, and hung on to it, playing it often (secretly) as it somehow expressed my predicament.

Why does that song have that power? Hard to explain, but I think that the song conveyed a certain sympathy for the two key characters in it. Lucille the burdened housewife caught in a cycle of poverty and grinding work, thinking that there must be a better life somewhere else, and her husband, a hardworking, unthinking character who accepted that grinding work was his destiny, perhaps just doing the best he knew how, without any real appreciation of wife’s feelings.

With 1975 far behind us, the promised land of the Paradise earth seemed as far away as ever. I had started to think my spirit was imprisoned, like Lucille’s. I’d turned to music, mostly classical piano pieces, wanting something beautiful that was missing in me. I took an Art class, learning how to make etchings. I stood down as an elder. All the time, thinking that my spirit was trapped. And when, one day, I heard that song on my car radio, there was an instant appeal. It was not a gender issue, it was simply a human issue,

Lucille's line, [quote] "I finally quit living on dreams" [/quote] presented my situation lucidly. I'd been living on the painted Christian dream of life in a Paradise. It had been promised as only a few years away. The few years had stretched into decades. I'd seen faithful brothers and sisters, older than I was, come to the end of their lives, not seeing the expectation of their faith, and their dream had failed, as they entered the common grave of all mankind. My youth had vanished in the work in the field, I was approaching old age. Reality woke me. The dream was only a dream

Would I be like Lucille's husband, slaving away in the field, while the promises faded into darkness ? Or, was there something else? Again the words placed in Lucille's mind:

"I'm after whatever the other life brings!" had meaning to me. I'd offered my life as a sacrifice to Yahweh and Jesus. But the promised reward was crumbling to dust in front of me.

What of all the legitimate things I had sacrificed? If death ends all, then I had sacrificed them for nothing but dust.

Worse, like Lucille, I had to walk away from things I loved. More accurately, they would be ripped away from me, by those who would claim that they were protecting my family from my faithless apostacy. And I knew that my former wife would never turn away from her concepts, she had built her life's framework around the dream.

And, that was how it turned out. I lost many things that I held dear.

But I regained my freedom, my right to be me, for better or worse. I am me.

Yahweh and Jesus became the illusion. I was Free, free to dream other dreams

8

The Evolutionary History of the Apple

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

this is a fascinating study of how our modern apples evolved.

the study involved examining the genomes of the array of apple varieties, including related types of fruit.. from it we can learn that the fruit types we know today, may not have existed in ancient times.

from its origins in what we now call kazakhstan, it seems the original fruit changed as trees grew in many places along the great ancient network of trade routes we call the silk road, and as different varieties evolved in various ways.. a readable version of the story can be found in popular archaeology:.

fulltimestudent

This is a fascinating study of how our modern apples evolved. The study involved examining the genomes of the array of apple varieties, including related types of fruit.

From it we can learn that the fruit types we know today, may not have existed in ancient times

From its origins in what we now call Kazakhstan, it seems the original fruit changed as trees grew in many places along the great ancient network of trade routes we call the Silk Road, and as different varieties evolved in various ways.

A readable version of the story can be found in Popular Archaeology:

But an even more fascinating version (for the technically-minded) may be found in a British academic journal, Nature Communications.

Here's an extract from the Abstract:

"A comprehensive model of apple speciation and domestication along the Silk Road is proposed based on evidence from diverse genomic analyses. Cultivated apples likely originate from Malus sieversii in Kazakhstan, followed by intensive introgressions from M. sylvestris. M. sieversii in Xinjiang of China turns out to be an “ancient” isolated ecotype not directly contributing to apple domestication. We have identified selective sweeps underlying quantitative trait loci/genes of important fruit quality traits including fruit texture and flavor, and provide evidences supporting a model of apple fruit size evolution comprising two major events with one occurring prior to domestication and the other during domestication. This study outlines the genetic basis of apple domestication and evolution, and provides valuable information for facilitating marker-assisted breeding and apple improvement."

The primary authors are: Naibin Duan, Yang Bai and Xuesen Chen.

The lead institution for the research appears to be (at least it's listed first in the journal's write-up),

State Key Laboratory of Crop Biology, Shandong Agricultural University, Tai’an, Shandong, PRC.. but there are large number of sharing institutions in both China and the USA.

22

Is the End right around the corner or what???

by Lynnie in

interesting observations i've noticed when visiting my uber elder cousin and his wife.

he just inherited a lovely home on the water on puget sound from his non jw dad who passed away earlier this year.

so they have spent many $$$ and months remodeling this house to their standards which are quite expensive tastes.

fulltimestudent

This 'double standard' is always amusing.

Met an elderly lady once in Australia, whose family had been associated with the Bible students/JWs since before 1914. In the kerfuffle after Russell died and renewed claims of the nearness of the big A, her mother sold their house - a very nice house according to this old lady (sucker!!!). When the news filtered around of the sale, the prominent 'hen' in that particular congregation approached the mother and said, "Why didn't you tell me you were selling, I would have bought it."

The unknown author (perhaps unknown, because it could have been a woman) held up the example of faithful servants of the jewish god in the past.

"They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground." (Hebrews 11:38)

But that example is no longer held up to contemporary witnesses.

7

Atheism is likely as old as Religious thinking - thinkers often doubted the existence of supernatural beings.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've only just discovered an important book on the topic of atheism was published in 2015. it's title is, "battling the gods: atheism in the world.

" by tim whitmarsh, professor of greek culture at the uk's university of cambridge.. whitmarsh reviews a 1000 years of greek/roman writings and can demonstrate that the surviving writings of many famous ancient authors discussed disbelief in the god(s).that alone casts doubts on the concept many 'believers' today promote, that a belief in divinities is hard wired into the brain.

and, just as clearly, atheism is not just a modern view.. whitmarsh argues, " that early societies were far more capable than many since of containing atheism within the spectrum of what they considered normal.

fulltimestudent

slimboyfat: I had anyway thought that belief and non-belief have a long and paired history.

I'm inclined to agree with you, as generally we agree/disagree once a proposition is placed before us. Sounds a bit silly arguing that there is no god, if no-one around us is proclaiming a belief in a god.

Since we have absolutely no idea as to when the concept of a god first arrived in human thought during the long process of human evolution, we really cant argue as to when a denial of that proposition was first argued. All we can do (in archaeology) is examine the first traces of belief in some form of god.

SBF: I think some atheists have this notion that at one time everyone believed in God(s) but that with the advent of the enlightenment atheism has steadily grown and will eclipse belief.

Yes, maybe, but I've also seen some 'believers' argue in a similar way. Generally, west Asian religion makes that claim. God(s) created men, they believed, and then possibly rebelled. In Christian mythology, surely Adam and his family always believed in a 'god.'

SBF: At the moment the proportion of atheists appears to be going down not up. This is because believers have much higher fertility than atheists.

An interesting claim.Of course, the numbers accepting the truth of any claim has little to do with the truth of the claim. Even if there was only one dissenter to any claim, he could still be correct, and those who accepted the claim wrong.

Do you have statistics for that? I would genuinely be interested in knowing as to how the statistic collectors arrived at that conclusion. Was it a world-wide survey? Did they attempt to measure the cognitive skills of the believers at the same time.

If the statistical survey included Islamic and Indian believers, I could see a certain truth in the stats, although the concept of divinity would vary widely. And, if it included buddhists, and since buddhists may have very strange concepts of what a god is (e.g. they can die) are they really theists? Although, I guess their claim that humans can become supernatural beings and can 'save' others, as in the Pure land beliefs of Mahayana buddhism. Therefore I guess that buddhist teachings have to be seen as a form of theism.

Buddhists who follow this form may believe that if you call on the name of the Amitabha buddha when you are dying, he will come to you and take you to his 'Sukhavati Pure Land' (Actually it may be that every buddha has a pure land) I just happen to have focused on the Amitabha buddha in my studies. because his pure land is very much like the 'city of god' in Revelation 21 and 22. When I studied this and found that the concept of a 'pure land' actually preceded Christianity and that Buddhists had visited the west, I couldn't help wondering whether the author of Revelation had heard of this buddhist teaching and decided to incorporate it into that christian document.

The Amitābha buddha and his attendant bodhisattvas, Avalokiteśvara (on the right) and Mahāsthāmaprāpta (left)

10

Chapter 16 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower Slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

chapter 16. the tour .

my three days of housekeeping duty were over and i reported to the bethel office the next morning.

it was customary then get a tour of both the factory and the bethel home.

fulltimestudent

Grin! memories... In the first residential school ( we got to stay bethel for 2 weeks) for elders that I can recall.I was assigned to work a couple of hours each day in the laundry, testing my humility, I guess. I was assigned to work under an elderly sister. The highlight was her embarrassment at explaining to me that I had to inspect every sheet and all the men's u/pants for semen stains and spray the offending patch (Jude verse 23 NWT) with pre-wash spray.

I also ran into a problem with an elderly brother (he'd been in Bethel before WW2 and had lived there during the Aust. Army occupation of the Strathfield Bethel). Being real conscientious, I'd get up early to study and he counselled me on not wasting the electricity

7

Atheism is likely as old as Religious thinking - thinkers often doubted the existence of supernatural beings.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've only just discovered an important book on the topic of atheism was published in 2015. it's title is, "battling the gods: atheism in the world.

" by tim whitmarsh, professor of greek culture at the uk's university of cambridge.. whitmarsh reviews a 1000 years of greek/roman writings and can demonstrate that the surviving writings of many famous ancient authors discussed disbelief in the god(s).that alone casts doubts on the concept many 'believers' today promote, that a belief in divinities is hard wired into the brain.

and, just as clearly, atheism is not just a modern view.. whitmarsh argues, " that early societies were far more capable than many since of containing atheism within the spectrum of what they considered normal.

fulltimestudent

I've only just discovered an important book on the topic of atheism was published in 2015. It's title is, "Battling the Gods: Atheism in the World." by Tim Whitmarsh, Professor of Greek Culture at the UK's University of Cambridge.

Whitmarsh reviews a 1000 years of Greek/Roman writings and can demonstrate that the surviving writings of many famous ancient authors discussed disbelief in the God(s).That alone casts doubts on the concept many 'believers' today promote, that a belief in divinities is hard wired into the brain. Clearly it is not! And, just as clearly, atheism is not just a modern view.

Whitmarsh argues, " that early societies were far more capable than many since of containing atheism within the spectrum of what they considered normal."
"Rather than making judgements based on scientific reason, these early atheists were making what seem to be universal objections about the paradoxical nature of religion – the fact that it asks you to accept things that aren't intuitively there in your world. The fact that this was happening thousands of years ago suggests that forms of disbelief can exist in all cultures, and probably always have."
The book argues that disbelief is actually "as old as the hills". Early examples, such as the atheistic writings of Xenophanes of Colophon (c.570-475 BCE) are contemporary with Second Temple-era Judaism, and significantly predate Christianity and Islam. Even Plato, writing in the 4th Century BCE, said that contemporary non-believers were "not the first to have had this view about the gods."

You can inspect the chapters etc on the Amazon web-site: https://www.amazon.com/Battling-Gods-Atheism-Ancient-World/dp/0307958329

Whitmarsh suggests that the structure of Greek society, that is, a multitude of semi-independent city states, each with its own set of divinities and no over-riding authority that enforced belief encouraged independent thinking. He notes that this changed when, in the 4th century CE, Roman emperors accepted Christianity, and ...

Quote: the polytheistic societies that generally tolerated it were replaced by monotheistic imperial forces that demanded an acceptance of one, "true" God. Rome's adoption of Christianity in the 4th Century CE was, he says, "seismic", because it used religious absolutism to hold the Empire together.
Most of the later Roman Empire's ideological energy was expended fighting supposedly heretical beliefs – often other forms of Christianity. In a decree of 380, Emperor Theodosius I even drew a distinction between Catholics, and everyone else – whom he classed as dementes vesanosque ("demented lunatics"). Such rulings left no room for disbelief.

In the course of my studies, I found that, according to surviving documents, ancient Indian thinkers sometimes expressed doubts as to the existence of imagined supernatutural beings.

And in early China, in the mid-third century to early-fourth century CE, A Chinese thinker Guo Xiang, expressed these thoughts on the topic, after a discussion on the topic of whether there is a creator or not, concludes:

Hence everything creates itself without the direction of any creator ... This is the norm of the universe.

7

FUN. What fun?

by VW.org in

i'll have some of that bread, yes and some of that red wine.

not bad give me some more red please.

give me the bottle and go away.

fulltimestudent

VW,org : I'll have ... yes and some of that red wine.

Well, not at the meeting, but maybe you could take the nearly full bottle home, and with a few trusted mates, have as much as you want and a few more bottles if you like ... (and, even complain about the selected speaker's lousy talk) - grin!!!

OH! and your kids could finish off the unleavened bread, and then complain that it did not taste very good ...

And the wives, in the kitchen, could bitch about some other sisters lousy dress sense.

Best part of the evening, in retrospect.

32

Jehovahs Witnesses and Babylon The Great.Why the Emphasis on the R.C.Church and not on Islam.

by smiddy in

i was thinking back to when the book babylon the great has fallen gods kingdom rules.was published many years ago when it was believed religion was declining in the world.. the book took exception to the r.c.church as the worst of christendom substituting themselves for the kingdom of god on earth , the counterfeit kingdom i think they called them.vicar of christ on earth.. and while its true to some degree in western lands today that religion is declining as regards christendom it is not happening in non christian religions around the world.. which brings me to the unprcedented rise and spread of islam in the world today .. with the war in iraq ,syria ,etc,and the people fleeing these war torn countries to europe and elsewhere around the globe with refugees and asylum seekers the spread of islam in the short space of time now beats any missionary projects conducted by christendom.. judaism ,christendom and islam all have their roots in the bible.the jews first then christians then muslims.. the bible only relates to the first two jews and christians and is completely silent about muslims.even in prophecy.. the book mentioned earlier btggkr nowhere mentions islam or muslims.as if they didnt even exist ,yet today they equal in numbers to all of christendoms religions.. islam today is by far a greater threat to christianity and especially to jehovahs witnesses than anything the roman catholic church ever posed before.. obviously the holy bible and the holy spirit or jehovahs chosen people the jehovahs witnesses never did forsee the rise and influence of the religion of islam in todays world.. the bible is completely silent about islam or the rise of muslims on the world stage.. could it be that they could no more predict the future than i could ?.

the wtb&ts the publishing house of jehovahs witnesses have for the past 100 years have continually attacked the roman catholic religion and portrayed them in an unfavourable light.time after time in mags and books,.

how many times have the wtb&ts attacked and challenged the religion of islam and muslims and condemned them as a principle member of babylon the great the empire of false religion.. to this day jehovahs witnesses cannot freely go door to door preaching their message in muslim dominated countries where proselytism is forbidden.

fulltimestudent

smiddy: Which brings me to the unprcedented rise and spread of Islam in the world today .

Well, it may look 'unprecedented,' but the initial rise of Islam was actually far more impressive

In 624 CE the Mediterranean world looked like this:

You can see the tiny patch of green in what is now Saudi Arabia and see the start of Islamic influence. By far the most important Empire is the Christian Eastern Roman (Byzantine). In fact Christianity's most important centres were concentrated in western Asia.The second most important empire was Sasanian Iran, nearly as powerful, and in fact (without the rise of Islam) likely to have been (at that stage) at least the equal of the Eastern Roman Empire. Lots of Christians there too, but it was the source of Zoroastrianism which had already influenced Judaism and possibly the development of Christianity.it could be argued that it also influenced Indian thought,

(the map is from the web-site, Historical Atlas of the Mediterrean: http://explorethemed.com/RiseIslam.asp

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now take a look at a similar map, that shows the unprecedented spread of Islam in less that 150 years (750 CE):

See the web-site, Oxford Islamic Studies online:

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t253/e17

And just a year later (751 CE) a battle between China's Tang dynasty and the Islamic Arab Abbasid Caliphate at the Talas River, (on the border of contemporary Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan) saw the Chinese forces defeated and the Abbasid's gain control of the wealth of the western Silk road Trading Network.

But the history of Islam is not one of unity - within the Islamic areas, ambitious men often overthrew the existin government and created new empires. At the same time Arab traders criss-crossed Asia, and helped the spread of Islam. And Islamic scholars preserved much of the wisdom of ancient Greece and added their own (sometimes brilliant) scholarship.

This last map development shows the further development of Islam. But there is much more to the story of why we have the current crisis on our hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0VdJAgLRoE

But I would argue that Islam peaked long ago.

22

How smart were the ancients?

by Coded Logic in

growing up as a jw, i always thought the ancients were scientific morons who knew next to nothing.

ashamedly, i used to run around citing isaiah 40:22 as proof of the bible's 'divine authorship' because it talked about "the circle of the earth".

as though this were somehow an unknowable before spaceflight.

fulltimestudent

Xanthippe: Yeah google Atomists. The ancient Greeks were incredible.

Agreed. Reading of the conclusions of Leucippus or Democritus, both of whom lived in the city of Abdera, it's difficult not to be impressed by their intuitive reasoning and their conclusions.

Of course, its difficult to be absolutely sure as much of their writings have been lost, but sufficient documentation remains for us to follow their reasoning. Basically, Leucippas proposed that the world was ultimately made up of things which did not have qualities (like wood as an example). He concluded that if you continued to divide any substance, you would eventually reach things which were not further divisible. He called these things atoma i,e, indivisible. He was wrong on that point as we now understand, but to conceptualise about invisible atoms was a huge step in human knowledge, and even though, the Israelites/Jews lived in an area that was on a trade route between Greek cities and Egypt, nothing that is extant tells us that the Israelites/Jews ever learnt a thing from those early Greek thinkers.

A publication by Oxford World's Classics, called The First Philosophers: The Presocratics and the Sophists (trans: Robin Wakefield) contains an excellent chapter on the process of deductive thinking that led to the above conclusions.

Another publication in the same series, by the ancient thinker Lucretius, On the Nature of the Universe, (trans. Ronald Melville) may similarly impress you.Lucretius composed his thoughts in verse, which makes it all the more impressive (to me, anyway) Lucretius cites the works of many other early thinkers, so its particularly valuable.