Wow, thank you for that new info. I never realized that it said that in Genesis, and I've read that chapter more times than I can count. Does anyone still have a NWT? What does it say in that, just out of curiosity?
Coincidentally, we are having ribs for dinner tonight, lol.
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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29
Adam's Rib
by BrendaCloutier inok, this is a brain fart i had last night as i was falling asleep.. growing up jw i somehow developed the belief that women were not made in the image of jehovah, as men were, hence we were inferior to men, and therefore the requirement to be subservient.
it's been so long that i don't know if this was the teaching or my assumption.. counterpoint:.
god created adam in his image.. god then took one of adam's ribs and created eve (sounds more akin to cloning to me, after all it's only one silly chromosome that separates the sexes).. eve was created from adam who was made in god's image.. hence eve is made in god's image.. personally, i think when god made adam, he said "i can do better than that!".
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Cicatrix
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Did the WTS make an atheist out of you?
by JH inshouldn't a religion bring people closer to god?
it would seem that many became atheist after being deceived by the wts.
unlike other religions, the wts was very precise in what was to happen during the 20th century.
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Cicatrix
Nope. Although I have a very different concept of divinity than that of an old man with a white beard up there in the sky somewhere.
I have a need to be spiritual. I have all of my life. I don't care if there is a grain of truth to whether or not divinity exists, or if I am just imagining it, and making use of archetypal, mythological images to bring meaning to my life. It makes me whole and happy, and that's all I care. I will not permit my experiences with the WTS to separate me from something I have valued all of my life.
Reality and reason are a wonderful thing, but not if they drain all of the joy out of your existence, and make you so pessimistic you have no vision of a better future. Play and imagination are wonderful things, too. Some of our greatest minds were playful, and their imaginations spanned far beyond what "normal" society considered reasonable. It's almost always been the dreamers, the visionaries, who ignite the fire of new ideas, ideas that start out as great controversies and heresies,then are refined by science and reason.
The words of Bozo the clown or Barney can be just as meaning-full to a child as the theories of Einstein are to an adult.It all depends on the subjective experience of each individual. -
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You are EX-JWs because you want to live an immoral life!
by Sirona inmany jehovah's witnesses believe what they've been told about ex-witnesses.
they say that exjws simply want to live an immoral life.
they say that exjws cannot live up to "jehovah's standards".
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Cicatrix
"I didn't leave to become immoral I left because of the hypocrisy and guilt trips and the sheer exhaustion of living up to the rules of men."
Same with me, Sirona.
I haven't commited a "sin of the flesh" yet, despite the fact that it's been two years since I left, and I have an entirely different belief system now (I do celebrate holidays, though, so have returned to "Babylon the Great," which is one of their major rants on immorality).
Funny thing is, I drink less often since I left. I think I was using alcohol to numb the pain of all the crap that was happening when I was JW.I think a lot of JWs drink heavily,staying just one step away from drunken revelry for the same reason.
It's odd, because I haven't forbidden myself from any "taboo" activity. I just don't have the desire to do any of the stuff the WTS considers immoral. I'm too busy waking up every morning, happy to be able to exercise free will.
Free will-now there's a subject the WTS doesn't talk about often;) -
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Story caused me to cry tears of joy
by Robdar inproof that animals are sentient, intelligent beings:
by bilen mesfin, associated press writer .
woodside, calif. - when koko the gorilla used the american sign language gesture for pain and pointed to her mouth, 12 specialists, including three dentists, sprang into action.
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Cicatrix
Thanks for sharing, Robdar:)
I think it's great that there is finally research showing that animals are sentinent, yet somehow I think it's kind of sad that it takes research to "prove" it. I've interacted with various animals all of my life, and common sense has been enough for me to realize that they can and do communicate amongst themselves and across species lines.
It's the same with babies. A lot of people have the erroneous notion that babies come out with only a partially developed nervous system, so are not as "aware" as they will be at later stages of their development. Well, having given birth to five kids myself, I don't believe that for a second. Those little guys come out fully aware-usually much more aware than older people. They are so aware, they have to close out stimuli so that it doesn't become overbearing. That closing out is defined by researchers to be a lack of awareness.
Babies who are with family members often act very differently than babies who are in the company of strangers. I had some of my kids in the hospital, and some at home. The differences in the way they interacted was staggering. The hospital born babies "shut down" shortly after birth and slept a lot until they were home. The home born children remained active and alert, with shorter sleep periods while only family was present, but shut down and fell into a deep sleep or cried when there were people present who were not immediate family. I had one child who was inconsolable when non family members were in the house, and I had to limit visiting time for my friends until he was a bit older (he is still very sensitive).
I respect the advances of science immensly, but in a way, I think the scientific model of viewing the world also has negative effects on how people think about and interact with the environment. It's easy to objectify and exploit the things that you don't feel have the capability to interact with you.Hopefully studies like this will cause a shift in thinking and actions.
Thanks again
Cic -
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I finally went to CHURCH----and didn't feel guilty!
by findingme ini've was df'd over 6 years ago after spending all of my life a jw.
i remember thinking i could never step foot in a church out of guilt or fear.
however, i am feeling a loss of some kind of christian fellowship....i think i read a few other posts regarding this need for some of you.. i knew i would not go back to a kh, either.
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Cicatrix
Finding Me,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm glad for you that you are finding a kind of peace you didn't have before.
The first time I entered a church after leaving the JWs, I was literally shaking. I came away with that same feeling of awe that you descibed, though, and just kept attending and working my way through the indoctrinated phobia. It's been four months since I've started going to church, and I still have that same feeling of awe and freedom. We have live music at our church (lots of African American spirituals, complete with clapping,etc.:) ), and it brings me to tears to listen to the music and to sing the hymns.
I'm still working through some JW "stuff." Not so much guilt now, as feeling the pain of what I've been missing out on all these years. I have a tendency to start crying when I speak about my past experiences, and how being a part of my new community makes me feel so very greatful. It makes me feel kind of wishy washy and very vulnerable to be so open (I'd learned to close myself off when I was JW), but there is always someone there to give me a hug, and tell me I've come a long way, and that it'll take time to heal.People listen, and comment on their own healing after dealing with authoritarian religions (and there are others who are at the same junture that I am with whom I can talk), but no one tells me how it "should" be, or that I should just pray more and rely on God more. And I am realizing that I need to give in to this grieving process so I can move on.
I agree that religion is for people and not God. I think most of us have an innate need to be part of a community where we can both nurture and be nurtured.I will NOT let the years of indoctrination in WTS policy take that away from me. -
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What have you replaced the Sunday meetings with?
by Glenmore ini have got into the habit of checking this forum and then going out on the deck (which we call the church of flow, it's a perch about 30' up) and playing my guitar for an hour or so - particularly on nice days like today.
then i come back in, look a bit of tv, eat, read and stuff like that.
i consider my sunday's sacred, i won't go anywhere unless i have to.
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Cicatrix
One thing I tend not to do is to structure my Sundays now, so it depends a lot on how I feel when I wake up.
Sometimes, I get up and have coffee and surf the net while the kids are still sleeping (and of course stop off here).Then when they wake up, I will have them run across the street and get Krispy Kreme donuts and a newspaper, which we will divide up (heh heh-read fight over) and read.
If there is something interesting going on at the church forum, I might go there and then to the service that follows (I can't explain how nice it is not feel compelled to attend every Sunday). Afterwards, I go to my favorite library (which is right across the street from the church, and open on Sundays, whoohoo).
I usually take a walk in the afternoon (I walk alone mostly, because I do walking meditation), then hang out with my kids. Sometimes, we go see a movie, go to the amusement park, or take a hike at a nearby park.We usually have something grilled for supper (my son is proudly learning how to use the grill), which we prepare together (the boys agree that the food tastes better when we all contribute to preparing the meal).
After dinner, we play with our dog in the back yard and hang out on the swing and talk. Or we might watch a video or something on tv (I'm not so much into tv anymore, though, and usually read or write letters while they watch).
I'm heading back to college this fall, though, so Sundays will probably be spent doing homework now, lol. -
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Children at the meetings...
by desib77 ini've noticed quite a few "meetings" threads lately and thought i would add another one.
i remember when i was young, 8-12 years old, my mother would see a sister take her baby or children to the back.
my mom would get up and go back there with her.
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Cicatrix
I was never offended when others offered to help. The problem I had was that I would get pulled aside and "counseled" by the elders that my children should remain with me at my seat during the meetings. Even though I had five small children. Even though I brought those five small children by myself to the meeting. This only happened in one congregation I attended, though. At the other, they seemed to care more about families, and it was permissable and encouraged for others to help with the children.
At the "counseling" congregation, my daughter and I tried to help out the young mothers, and we were told that there were certain people "assigned" to help out, and that we were not to take the children. Scarily enough, one of the people who was assigned to help is a man I suspect is a pedophile (his own grandaughter said that he had abused her). -
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I'm thinking about attending a Unitarian Universalist service this Sunday
by DanTheMan inthoughts?
opinions?
experiences?
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Cicatrix
The UU church here has lots of different programs of interest. There is a book group, a writing group, a women's studies group, an ecology group, and astronomy group, and those are only the ones I can think of at the moment. If you wanted to start an Existentialist club, a UU congregation would be a good place to announce it, lol.
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coolest thing about your old KH?
by Lostreality in.
at my old hall, after the new sound system was installed, it would pick up am radio.. i have never known so much about the seattle mariners as i did in the 3 months it took them to find a fix for it.
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Cicatrix
It had windows, and outside the windows in the back yard were some pretty little birch and pine trees.
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I'm thinking about attending a Unitarian Universalist service this Sunday
by DanTheMan inthoughts?
opinions?
experiences?
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Cicatrix
"Mostly the rejected of society find their way there. Gay and Lesbian, radical-political, spacey new-agey, do-it-yourself autodidacts, etc. Really nice people and interesting."
About half the congregation I attend are university professors,scientists, speech pathologists, local politicians and the like.Some happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual,on the New Age path, Pagan,eco-conscious folks
e, passionately political (refreshing after my college government class to see anyone who even cares about what's happening in the political arena, lol).So what.
They may be rejected by the most conservative factions in society who see anyone who is striving to bring about changes that don't match their particular paradigm as a threat, but they are definitely not rejected by society as a whole. The church I attend is very active in various interfaith programs in the community, as well as social and political causes.The cool thing is that the so-called "rejected" of society are also treated as valuable members of the congregation, not people to be scapegoated.The church only benefits from having their gifts to help breathe life into the church community. Also, their respect and care for children just blows me away.
If you go to a UU service expecting someone to lead you to THE TRUTH, as in one absolute set of beliefs that you can bet your eternal life on, you may be dissapointed. The emphasis is more on finding what works for you, learning about what works for others, and sharing a common bond of being seekers, and challenging each other with respectful debate and discussion.
I enjoy my solitary sojourns into experiencing life and spirituality, but I also like to converse with folks who are like-minded, who are interested in spiritual things, the arts, science, family,and all of the other things that makes life meaningful for me.I also enjoy the ritual of service, the singing (real LIVE MUSIC whooohooo!), and the readings. I am learning so much, just listening to the experiences of others who share things that they have learned along with their own particular beliefs!It's kind of like this message board, only in real life, lol.I like everyone here a lot, and I've learned a lot, but I don't think the internet can ever be a substitution for human companionship and a real community to belong to.