Posts by traveb

35

Closing down of all non-native congregations in The Netherlands

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

this weekend serious sources told me that in the netherlands the society is closing down all non-native congregations.

because of the mixed population of this country, there are >100 non-native congregations like english, france, dutch-caribian, arab, chinese, italian, russian, spanish etc.. my source was backing the dissision of the society because "these non-native congregations are islands on their own, with group-thinking and not allways listening to the society..." and concluded "these non-natives has to learn dutch instead of we are learning their language".. strange: some years ago many jw's learned a foreign language (like arab or chinese!

) and now they are all closing down.

traveb

This would be an interesting development if it turns out to be true. I would love to hear other people confirm this.

Here in California non-English congregations are a big deal. Huge in fact. The truth is though they can be a drain on English congregations as Saphhy pointed out above. I've asked other JW's about this and it makes for uncomfortable conversations because no one wants to admit it. I've seen it first-hand. Typically, the most zealous pioneers/elders in English congregations get bored with their non-productive English territories and move to an "exciting" foreign-language congregation. The English congregations lose publishers and are left with the non-motivated indivduals.

Often these foreign-language congregations are made up of mostly native English speakers. ASL congregations are an extreme example of this, only a small percent (less then 10%) of the publishers are actually deaf.

40

It's official, the internet IS the Watchtower's nemesis!

by cedars in

i have been inspired recently by some of the comments on this forum regarding the society having reached a "tipping point".

it's been observed that, despite the overwhelming weight of evidence that the society is nothing more than a damaging cult, the number of witnesses continues to increase, albeit gradually.

the latest figures i have available are those in the 2011 yearbook, showing a global 2.5% increase between 2009 and 2010.. as we all know, the internet is steadily rising in accessibility (or "penetration") around the world, and it provides a wonderful resource for those who are curious about joining the faith, helping such ones to quickly identify precisely how warped the teachings of the watch tower society really are.

traveb

I'm surpised western European countries like Spain and Italy have less then 50% Internet penetration.

78

Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.

bethel closings.

bethel layoffs.

traveb

I think the WTS will be okay. They're in the middle of a reorganization right now due to the decline of paper literature and donations, but they'll adjust. They should be able to survive off real estate investments and whatever their future donation stream is.

My prediction is that once tablets are ubiquitous and cheap enough most publishers will transition to digital publications. This will save the WTS a ton of money. Imagine how expensive it is to print and ship literature around the world. Heck, the new Amazon tablet just announced will be $199.

Selling magazines door-to-door is also becoming archaic (not to mention expensive), so perhaps they will encourage publishers to focus on just using the Bible and a tract that points people to the official website if they want to download magazines or get more information. Most people do that now anyways so this should be an easy transition.

The only way I see an implosion is if there some sort of huge scandal that gets a lot of press. It would have to involve high-ranking WTS officials or GB members and be something really outrageous, like a child porn ring, a Bernie Madoff-sized ponzi scheme, or something crazy like that.

27

City Overseers discontinued immediately 9/16/11

by Gayle in

letter dated 09/16/11 to all boes about city overseers being discontinued effective immediately.. this is from a very reliable jw anonymous source.. .

traveb

My understanding is that since subscriptions were discontinued, the main duty of city overseers was to coordinate relief efforts in case of a disaster.

71

Overlapping generation segment on the new Circuit Assembly program

by traveb in

jw
friends

so there i was at the circuit assembly sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam!

a demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching.

the reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the sunday morning symposium, "sanctify god's name by your speech".

traveb

Thanks for the link, Wannabefree. It sounds a little different from the demo I saw but the major talking points are the same.

What surprised me so much was that they rarely, if ever, talk about core doctrines or teachings at the 1 and 2-day assemblies. Usually the talks and skits cover life issues, like family stuff, young people, materialism, etc. There's always a talk encouraging full-time service. Typically the vibe I get from these assemblies is that the speakers are just trying to encourage the brothers and help them with day-to-day problems. Normally core doctrines, prophecies, and "new light" are saved for the district conventions.

Regarding assembly demos, my impression (from talking with the actual speakers) is that they are not scripted. The speakers are given a rough outline and have to write out the actual dialog. Of course they are always rehearsed in front of the CO and DO so nothing makes it to the stage without being vetted first.

71

Overlapping generation segment on the new Circuit Assembly program

by traveb in

jw
friends

so there i was at the circuit assembly sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam!

a demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching.

the reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the sunday morning symposium, "sanctify god's name by your speech".

traveb

So there I was at the Circuit Assembly Sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam! A demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching. The reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the Sunday morning symposium, "Sanctify God's Name by Your Speech". I'm not sure how they shoehorned this topic into this particular talk but there you go.

Anyway, the way the demo goes is a brother comes up to another brother and starts complaining about the new understanding of the word generation. He says something to the effect that the meaning of the word "changes every year" and now he "doesn't know what to believe". The other brother agrees with him saying that he and his wife found it difficult to understand but then they reviewed their convention notes and now everything is crystal clear. So he then reviews his notes with Brother Complainer and quotes almost verbatim the info given at the district convention. I chuckled when he got to the part, "Jesus evidently meant...".

I found this demo interesting. Is the GB getting enough negative feedback on this new teaching where they feel the need to go over again at the Circuit Assembly? I didn't get any audio so if someone is going soon to this assembly this would be a good part to record.

33

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-25-2011 WT Study (ENTER REST)

by blondie in

jw
friends

however, love for god and for his.

our love for god and his dear son = is of no value unless we are part of the human/earthly organization, the wts.

how many scriptures are actually read and applied at a meeting?

traveb

Not sure if anyone else saw this, but in these last two study articles I noticed a couple of buzzword phrases, "unfolding purpose" and "advancing purpose". They are used multiple times in each article and appear to be interchangable. I think I've seen "unfolding purpose" before but "advancing purpose" seems new. Anyone else notice this?

22

New court docs for Menlo Park KH scandal

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've been fighting computer problems for over a week, but i finally got a new article up at ex-jw.com about the status of the court case in san francisco.. the plaintiffs will be going to court this week and possibly again in ten days.

the big issue is the bank account statements and signature files.

plaintiffs claim that defendants opened up unauthorized bank accounts and allegedly forged the then current coboe / ceo's signature.

traveb

traveb - when did Koehler get transfered? Is this recent, or was this a couple of years back?

I was told it just happened as of the new service year starting today, part of the normal rotation of COs. I assume his Napa assignment will be just for one year then he'll rotate again in 2012 when all the COs start rotating at the same time.

Again, I'm not in the same circuit as Menlo Park so hopefully someone in that circuit can confirm.

22

New court docs for Menlo Park KH scandal

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've been fighting computer problems for over a week, but i finally got a new article up at ex-jw.com about the status of the court case in san francisco.. the plaintiffs will be going to court this week and possibly again in ten days.

the big issue is the bank account statements and signature files.

plaintiffs claim that defendants opened up unauthorized bank accounts and allegedly forged the then current coboe / ceo's signature.

traveb

Thank you so much for keeping us updated on the case. I live nearby but am in a different circuit so I don't know anything about this CO Koehler. If that Navy SEAL thing turns out to be true that would be hilarious! I do know that he got rotated to the Napa circuit.

75

Elder body removed Watchtower letter

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

elder body removed watchtower letter.

an elder body was removed last year in california.

most folks have never seen a watchtower letter breaking this news.

traveb

Thanks for posting this. I live in the area (Silicon Valley) but hadn't heard about it until I saw this post. I actually recognize the names of some of the elders who were deleted, I think they have given talks in my congregation before.

I skimmed the Court documents and agree with the summaries presented in this thread. It seems the trouble started when the CO wanted to merge the two congregations (Menlo Park & South Redwood City) and the elder body declined. This of course pissed off the CO who then got the DO and Branch involved.

This really goes to show how little control the local elder bodies ultimately have. The WTS likes to pretend when it's convenient that local elders are "independent agents" and that they're not responsible when elders do something wrong (like shielding child molesters). This case proves that's defintely not true. The CO, DO, and Branch pull all the strings. I feel really bad for sincere elders who are just trying to do what's best for the people in their congregation.

Regarding these two congregations being merged, I think this is also an interesting topic. "Merge" is just a nicer way of saying that a congregation is being dissolved due to low numbers. I don't know about other areas, but many of the English congregations around here have lost a lot of publishers. I can think of 7-8 congregations off the top of my head in the immediate area that have been dissolved in the last 10-15 years.