Posts by MrMonroe

12

Why do JWs think God would kill these people?

by MrMonroe in

this article from the guardian is one of the most harrowing pieces of journalism i have read in a long, long time.

north koreans raised like rats in a cage, forced to work seven days a week, scavenge for food in cow manure, inform on family members to gain a tiny increase in their rations, tortured, starved, degraded .... which raises two big questions.. 1. why do jehovah's witnesses believe that these people would die at armageddon because they have not joined them in "god's organization"?

how can jehovah's witnesses think god would be so legalistic, so small-minded, that he would deprive those people of life in a peaceful paradise ... just because no brother in a shirt and tie has ever knocked on the door of their barracks and offered them a chance for a bible study?

MrMonroe

This article from The Guardian is one of the most harrowing pieces of journalism I have read in a long, long time. North Koreans raised like rats in a cage, forced to work seven days a week, scavenge for food in cow manure, inform on family members to gain a tiny increase in their rations, tortured, starved, degraded .... which raises two big questions.

1. Why do Jehovah's Witnesses believe that these people would die at Armageddon because they have not joined them in "God's organization"? How can Jehovah's Witnesses think God would be so legalistic, so small-minded, that he would deprive those people of life in a peaceful paradise ... just because no brother in a shirt and tie has ever knocked on the door of their barracks and offered them a chance for a Bible study? If JWs who trudge grumpily around urban neighbourhoods offering Watchtowers are held blood-guilty for never contacting these prisoners, then what Witness stands a chance of surviving Armageddon?

2. And if God sees all suffering, sees every sparrow fall to the ground, why does he do nothing to end the misery of these people who are prisoners for life without hope of normal human existence, no chance of love or happiness? How could he sit by and think, "Yeaaah, this will teach them that Adam shouldn't have listened to Satan!"

It makes no sense, and the JW doctrine of salvation only to baptised Witnesses is as arrogant and cold-hearted as it's possible to be.

21

Something I never realized or thought of before: Discreet vs Discrete

by poopsiecakes in

so my whole life i heard the phrase 'faithful and discrete slave' and never paid attention to the real meaning of "discrete".

which is weird, because i'm a bit of a word junkie.

i guess the familiarity of the expression made me mentally gloss over it somehow.

MrMonroe

Early books and magazines referred to the "faithful and wise servant", which was the KJV rendering. That servant, of course, was deemed to be none other than Charle Taze Russell (his wife Maria first applied it to him and, well, what could he say?) My guess is that the term changed to "faithful and discreet slave" when the NWT was published.

(edit)

The term was introduced as new light in the October 15, 1950 WT as part of an article praising the "more accurate" translation of the NWT. The article stated that "the facts show" the slave class had been promoted over ALL Christ's belongings in 1919. Not even an "evidently" there. Just the fcts, ma'am.

44

ExJW who was a former friend explains why she defriended me on FB - and my response!

by Broken Promises in

jw
friends

hi broken promises,.

since i'll be seeing you on saturday [at her sisters wedding who is also an exjw], i thought i should let you know why i removed you from my friends list and didn't accept your last request.

i did this because i saw you were in an ex jehovah's witness recovery group.

MrMonroe

MOST inactive and former JWs are still captive to the concept that WT is God's Organization. A significant percentage live in fear of Armageddon.

Leavingwt's comment is spot-on.

I have written before about how my wife and I (out of the cult at that stage for about a year) visited one of our old friends in Brisbane, who told us proudly we were "amateurs" -- because he had not been to a meeting or memorial in seven years. We'd suspected for a while that he had left, and he spoke with some bitterness about how they had changed their view on higher education (he felt his own life prospects had been damaged because of their disapproval of university).

We had a long talk about why we left and why he left ... and as we parted, he said to us, "Hey guys, we have to stay in touch! I mean, it's not as if you've been disfellowshipped or anything." I presumed he was joking and waited for a laugh -- but he was serious. Seven years after he had decided he no longer wanted to be a JW, he was letting THEM decide who he could be friends with. He was still in their control.

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

MrMonroe

Notreadytorun, Good thing you removed your email address ... though I was about to email you! I'll send you a private message instead. Check on the little envelope, though you may have to go "back" a few times till the stupid thing works.

I'm in Melbourne and left the religion four years ago (my anniversary of leaving is next month, as it happens!) I have met a few other ex-JWs and contacted some more in Melbourne, some via JWN and others through other means.

And yes, it is very good therapy to meet others who have escaped and share experiences and feelings.

27

Has Anyone Been Present When a Dissident Spoke in KH?

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

i know some dissatisified members have planned to "throw caution to the wind" when they exit and break the news as a stunning revelation of lies.

some of my funniest memories were of teachers and others terminated but since they had to finish their contract, they decided to share their insights and horrors.

in normal life, there is a certain allowance made under the circumstances.

MrMonroe

Well, there was Little Toe in Scotland ...

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

MrMonroe

The JWs often give as their "proof" that they are God's organization:

No other organisation has the same international peace and harmony in its ranks. It's a powerful point, and they are to be commended for it, though I think the Quakers are also pacifists with an international membership. Unfortunately it comes at the cost of repression of individuality as believers not only become "united in mind" but are forced to become uniform in speech, behaviour and outlook. It's a very brave soul who brokes free within their ranks and chooses to express their individuality.
The rapid growth of the organisation in the "last days". They have certainly developed sophisticated recruitment techniques and exploited modern fears of the future. But as someone pointed out, the Jews and the gay population have increased in size since World War II. Pentecostal churches and the Mormons have also grown rapidly. And what to do they make of the slowing rate of growth?
Their persistence at their worldwide door-to-door preaching campaign despite the unsaid fact that everyone hates it. It all comes down to organisational and preer pressure to keep going and fears of repercussions should they stop. And what quality is that preaching? Most JWs do it perfunctorily, lying about their hours, dawdling in streets, cars and coffee shops, doing anything they can to avoid knocking on doors, then just half-heartedly offering mags when someone does open the door. Zealous? Whole-hearted? I think not.

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

MrMonroe

The concept of God having an organization is a Watch Tower Society construct designed to make JWs obey everything the organization tells them. If it was so important to God that he have an organization, why did Jesus never mention it?

Does the modus operandi of the WTS mirror God's love? What does your reading of Ray Franz's book tell you about the level of deception, control and pride that motivates their every move? What did Jesus do with people who disagreed with him -- did he shun them for life? Would God or Jesus "use" as their "organization" a religion that was so controlling and so retributive?

And if it's true that Jesus inspected all religions in 1914 and chose the WTS as his organization, why did he choose a religion that within a very short time began to change its teachings? And decided its old teachings were wrong? In the parable at Mark 13:35, Jesus told his followers to stay awake "for you do not know when the master of the house is coming", but what were the Bible Students doing in 1914? Were they waiting for the master to return .... or had they decided he had come 40 years earlier in 1874? What would Jesus have thought about Rutherford sacking a majority of the WTS board of directors so he could insist on his article with his interpretation being printed in The Watchtower?

To many people the Watchtower Society has a very benevolent appearance. Dig deeper, however, search the past, and you find a corrosive culture of distortions, information control, secrets, and whitewashed and rewritten history.

It's not the truth. It can't be.

27

Reality setting in for Jehovah's Witnesses?

by MrDarkKnight in

when my friends and family try to "reason" with me about my decision to leave, i immediatley begin to question the interpretation of the so-called prophecy in the bible, i am getting the following consistent response:.

"it does not matter if the end comes in my lifetime.

i know i am doing god's will.".

MrMonroe

I can't read this thread without thinking of the lovely couple in Brisbane who "brought me into the truth". They were distraught, truly, when my wife told them that we had left the religion and would not return. When we met again some months later, they were still emotional. The guy had tears in his eyes, begging me to tell him why we had left. We wouldn't/couldn't tell them that the reason was because we had read Ray Franz's books and realised it was all a fraud. We were worried he woiuld phone ur congregation and start a judicial committee. We just told him we had made a decision and that was that.

The tragedy of it all is that neither were born-ins. The husband was contacted at the doors in Brisbane and lured in; his wife was originally dead against it, but later succumbed. Now she's the one who phones my wife a week before the 2010 memorial and tells her she's a hypocrite for not attending because she "knows it's the truth".

Both of them have battled against the attempted manipulation of their lives by nosey "brothers and sisters". They are successful in business and life, and have much more money than I can ever hope to make. But they remain trapped. I am now free. And I really feel sorry for them that they just don't realise what a crock they have sold their lives to.

54

Who or what "governs" the teachings of the so-called GOVERNING BODY?

by Terry in

if a person walked up to you one day and started telling you what to do, how to do it, and threatening you if you refused, wouldn't you immediately ask them by what authority they had such a right?

wouldn't you want to see a badge?

credentials?

MrMonroe

Why does the command to partake of the body of Jesus apply only to a few but the command to quit mixing in company with whoever applies to everyone?

I think it makes sense only if both apply to everyone or both apply to only them who belong to Christ.

N Drew, beautiful logic. Ditto the "command" for JWs to go preaching. All those scriptures they always cite (Acts 20:20, Acts 5:42) about preaching "house to house" also refer only to the apostles. The blood "command" at Acts 15 was directed at first century Christians. Weird how those specific instructions can somehow take on a wider application when it suits the WTS.

206

i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.

i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.

MrMonroe

MsGrowingGirl, my wife and I left in 2008 after reading CoC. We had been very unhappy in our congregation for so long and Ray's book explained so much of what was wrong. I would never have left the JWs because I was convinced they were "God's organization" and if I cut myself off from it I could die at Armageddon. Ray's book showed me the JWs have no greater claim to being "God's organization" than any other religion (and why would God need to have an organization???? Does the WTS really reflect God's qualities??? Would he really want those control freaks to be leading all humans in a new system???)

I read so much more, and discovered much more, abut the JWs after I left. How strange is that? Part of what I discovered was that even Armageddon -- that thing that had kept me in fear for so long (like hellfire for Catholics!) was just a construct of Joseph Rutherford, a scene painted by arbitrarily sticking together unrelated bits of Revelation, Joel, Ezekiel etc. The blood ban suddenly made no sense. Nor did the ban on birthday celebrations.

You obviously enjoy reading, so it may be worthwhile to read Don Cameron's Captives of a Concept, a title drawn of course from Ray's books. Its value is putting on clear display the concepts the WTS uses to keep members in line. The very clever language and argumentation that stop JWs from looking outside their cage.

One more thing: if you get a chance to watch the DVD of The Village, with William Hurt, do so. A lot of things in that will click.

All the best. You are still young, you have a life ahead of you. I wasted 22 years of my life in that religion. I'll be honest and say there were some benefits (I cleaned up my life, met my wife) but the costs -- the control of my life by a manipulative religion -- were too high. My wife was born-in and feels very cheated and angry about having what should have been the best years of her life in her youth taken from her.