Just so pathetic that millions of people around the world feel the need to turn to a group of men in ties and moustaches to tell them how to live. Patronising bastards.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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11
Published life story of Australian ex-Witness. An absorbing read.
by MrMonroe inthere are a number of books available on amazon giving the life stories of ex-witnesses.
i've always been intrigued by one called "i'm perfect, you're doomed" by kyria abrahams, which sounds like a witty read.
one day i'll buy it!.
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MrMonroe
There are a number of books available on Amazon giving the life stories of ex-Witnesses. I've always been intrigued by one called "I'm Perfect, You're Doomed" by Kyria Abrahams, which sounds like a witty read. One day I'll buy it!
I recently met a very interesting character whose own life story is an incredible tale of survival: "A Little Lower Than Angels", by Melbourne author Helen Travers. In short, she lived in a small country town in Victoria, Australia when her mother succumbed to the pressures of visiting JWs and joined up, then began dragging her kids along to meetings as well. All the family bar the father joined; Helen fell in love with (and under the spell of) a guy she worked with who joined the Witnesses but lost interest the day they married. Through an emotionally abusive relationship he coerced his wife into prostitution, a life from which she escaped only years later.
Though she emerged basically intact, she remained mentally entrapped by the Witnesses for years and today she is still shunned by almost all her family, including her mother.
It's very well written, a very powerful story and for outsiders, an amazing insight into two very closed worlds at extreme ends of the moral spectrum: a tightly-knit, high-control religion and prostitution. The book is available through Amazon, though I'm not trying to spruik it here, So far it's self-published, but Helen is trying to get a major publisher in Australia to pick it up.
You may find it interesting ... I reckon there's a book in just about every ex-JW, but are there any you've read that are standouts and worth buying?
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Identifying who Jehovah is using
by jwfacts inthe governing body seems to have ramped up the number of comments in the watchtower in recent years that they are chosen by god and must be trusted as such.
how exactly has jehovah manifested that the gb are his representatives and must be followed.
tell me if i am missing something, but it seems in the bible, god provided dramatic signs to prove who his representatives were, yet these days there seems to be none.. .
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MrMonroe
Great thread, Paul. Some suggested rejoinders:
1. Weirdly enough, they count their numerical increase as proof of God's blessing and confirmation that God is using them. " As in the first century, today ‘a great number have become believers and have turned to the Lord.’ Although numerical increase is not in itself proof of God’s blessing, it does provide evidence that “the hand of Jehovah” is with his people." (WT05, 9/15, pg 8). "The earthly belongings of the King Jesus Christ have continually grown. Since 1971 the number of Witnesses has leaped from under 1,600,000 to a peak of over 3,700,000 in 1989. What proof of God’s blessing!" (W90, 3/15, pg 18).
2. Sure their "expectations" were sometimes awry. But in their eyes the fact that they realised and admitted they were wrong (eventually!) is proof that God continues to lead them to truth. "Things published were not perfect in the days of Charles Taze Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society; nor were they perfect in the days of J. F. Rutherford, the succeeding president. The increasing light on God’s Word as well as the facts of history have repeatedly required that adjustments of one kind or another be made down to the very present time. But let us never forget that the motives of this “slave” were always pure, unselfish; at all times it has been well-meaning." (W79, 3/1, pg 23). Bottom line: they're only human, but God is patiently helping them see truths when he thinks they're ready for it.
3. See (2) above.
In summary: Absolute hogwash.
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New Here!!
by Free!! ini've been watching from the sidelines for a while... reading about your experiences and it has helped me a lot!!!.
i am a 27 yo girl, i converted into a jw @ 20, at was going thru a difficult time in my life and they bastards sucked me in!!!
i did not realize how controlling things were going to get... about 1 year into my study i moved w another single sister and then baptize, looking back i think i went thru w baptism because i fell pressure by the "loving" congregation that wanted the best for me... i remember coming out of the pool and one of the brothers saying "another victim" and taking a pic of me... anyways, that wasn't the worst of it.... remember single female!!
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MrMonroe
Thanks for your story, Free, and welcome to the board. It's great to see people emerging through the other side of that mincing machine.
You hated the judgmentalism, and I think most of us would share your thoughts; it's often the miserable association we have with our "loving brothers and sisters" that drives us away. They watch and they judge. Even when they sense someone is falling, they do nothing to help, which puts a lie to their claim to be Christian and concerned for the welfare of others. My wife and I used to attend meetings for the last few years only to avoid being criticised, and I think many others do the same.
But I'm intrigued to know this: when and why did you start looking for websites such as this? Was there a point at which you made an intellectual decision that the organisation was wrong about doctrines or that it was baseless. (Maybe I'm being presumptuous: do you think that?) If so, was it hard pulling yourself away from the organisation and the overriding concept that they are God's Organisation™ and that you'd die if you left it?
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How should I respond to a JW friend? (Australia)
by summerinvincible insorry if this isn't the right place to post this - brand new member here.. i recently caught up with an old friend who is a jw.
she's been witnessing to me, and i've accepted all her handouts because i don't want to hurt her feelings.
but now she's asking me for my "thoughts" about what i've read so far.
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MrMonroe
Summerinvincible's friend may find some satisfaction in knowing that they didn't predict Christ's return for 1914. That would mean they're not false prophets! In the case of both dates, 1874 and 1914, they decided retrospectively that Christ had returned in those years. Through "careful Bible research".
They did, however, make a raft of other predictions that were clearly wrong. A list of them is found under "Failed predictions" at the Wikipedia article here.
There are 16 separate dates there on which they made very bold claims about Christ's return, the end of human rule and of course Armageddon. All specified dates or indicated a very short timespan (months, a "short time"). None were fulfilled. There is very little to differentiate between the Watchtower claims and those of Camping.
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Next time someone says "as JWs were all imperfect but it's still God's Organization"....
by RagingBull inafter seeing some vids and links yesterday about the society's intrest in hedge funds, as well as being in the united way (they have a code for donations thru the united way) i decided to search the wt cd to see if anything negative was said about either.
look what i found;.
from the 2/15/1972 watchtower.
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MrMonroe
a religious organization may appear good - doing and saying certain things taught in the Bible - but if it does not believe and faithfully adhere to all (there italics not mine) the teachings of God's Word, does God approve of it?"
That statement also ignores, of course, the plain truth that some religious organizations then add to the teachings of God's word with their own teachings and requirements, instructing members what they must do and cannot do:
- Forbidding certain medical treatments;
- Requiring family members be shunned for leaving a religious denomination or attending another church;
- Emotionally blackmailing members with the threat of shunning;
- Burdening members with a requirement to go door to door to distribute religious literature despite the patent lack of effectiveness of that practice;
- Forbidding the celebration of a person's birth;
- Forbidding the singing of national anthems;
- Forbidding the reading of certain books because they were written by former members of that religion;
- Punishing members who question, or disagree with, man-made religious doctrines .....
.... does God approve of such things?
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Best way to record a JC (Judicial Committee) meeting
by RayPublisher injust curious as to the best way to do it.
most new cell phones record audio, but that would leave with you when you are dismissed.
just wondering how to capture it all if it ever came to that.. .
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MrMonroe
I agree with Band on the Run. Attending a JC is an acknowledgment of the power they claim to hold over you. They will have satisfaction in taking action against you. Listening to recordings of JC meetings (such as the one on the Death Or Obedience blog) makes you realise they don't actually listen to what you have to say, making it a very frustrating, unsatisfying and probably very emotional meeting.
Is it really worth it?
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Next time someone says "as JWs were all imperfect but it's still God's Organization"....
by RagingBull inafter seeing some vids and links yesterday about the society's intrest in hedge funds, as well as being in the united way (they have a code for donations thru the united way) i decided to search the wt cd to see if anything negative was said about either.
look what i found;.
from the 2/15/1972 watchtower.
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MrMonroe
You just can't argue with a sick mind.
Jeez, Joe Walsh made some disappointing albums in his time, didn't he? And that was one of them. Sorry, just an aside. Please continue.
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How should I respond to a JW friend? (Australia)
by summerinvincible insorry if this isn't the right place to post this - brand new member here.. i recently caught up with an old friend who is a jw.
she's been witnessing to me, and i've accepted all her handouts because i don't want to hurt her feelings.
but now she's asking me for my "thoughts" about what i've read so far.
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MrMonroe
This is a fascinating thread, and it's particularly interesting reading the responses of the JW friends. As is expected, they are simply parroting JW literature without a great deal of thought. I've been guilty of doing the same in the past. As a JW you figure there's no one better at explaining JW doctrine than their own publications, and because JWs turn a blind eyed to contradictions and logical fallacies, they repeat those same statements assuming that those hearing them will similarly accept them.
I think I may have mentioned this on another thread once: I had a study with the husband of a female JW; he was prepared to give it a go and see if he could be persuaded. We were going through the Live Forever book about Bible chronology. When I explained that "a time, times and half a time" was three and a half times (because it said so on page 140 of the book), he asked, reasonably, why times meant two times, not three or four or 22. All I could so was shrug and say, "Well, it just is, it fits."
However I agree that the softly, softly approach is best. It may, just may, be possible that a few niggling doubts creep in over time when your friends try to explain why it is that when kooky things are found in other religions it's proof that those religions are false ... but when those same kooky things are found in the history of their religion, it's OK, because it was just the "truth" of the time that was later corrected.
Few Witnesses are aware of the explicit predictions that have been made in the past by their religion. Heavy pressure was placed on members of the church at that time to accept them, because they were proof that it was God's organisation and proof that the end was sooooo near .... yet those predictions were later dismissed as "false alarms" made with good intent. Today's predictions that the end is sooooooo near are no more reliable than the old, discarded predictions, and they give no more basis to believe that the WTS is God's "organisation" .... or that he even has an organisation.
Keep chipping away. Be subtle.
And don't forget, there are many Aussie ex-JWs here. I'm in Melbourne and there'll be others from your area around here as well. All the best!
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JWs at my Door
by laverite indoorbell rang.
saw through the peephole that it was jws.
opened the door and said "hi" in a friendly manner.
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MrMonroe
It's entirely appropriate for a householder to provide some unsolicited advice to someone who has arrived at their door, uninvited, as part of a highly organised proselytising campaign.
Witnesses expect householders to listen respectfully, but they are trained to talk, not listen, at the doors. They are often pushy and generally intolerant of opposing viewpoints. Although eager to push their literature on to householders and take advantage of their unfamiliarity with the Bible and JW doctrine, history and organisational practice, they refuse to accept literature from householders.
They are not going to be shocked at a blunt response from a householder, but who gives a rats if they are offended?