DrJohnStMark

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Posts by DrJohnStMark

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  28

  The "Truth" Is A Huge Waste Of Time!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mother still has hope i'll come back to the "truth".

  i think back at the utter boredom i suffered week after week for years sitting through the dull spiritually edifying meetings.

  i never understood why people would want to sit there only to hear repetition and more repetition.

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  DrJohnStMark

  Yes, the Truth TM is a huge waste of time... and more. Once I made a computer program using the calendar to generate a list of all the JW meetings I had attended during the more than twenty first years of my life. Unfortunately the list was lost in a disk break, otherwise I would append it below this message... it would fill up quite a few pages here. I originally produced the list for fun (to let some steam out), but it was also useful: It helped me to comprehend the strength of JW indoctrination.
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  9

  Cool new graphic art shows "the circle of the earth"

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this has been discussed ad nauseum on this board (you know, that 'circle of the earth' thing...), but i found this updated artwork of the ancient hebrew's view of the world wonderful.. you can get a huge hi-res version of it here.

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  DrJohnStMark

  Farkel: The Hebrews also thought the value of pi was 3.

  Oh yes... 1. Kings 7:23... Maybe the calculations based on the Hebrew scriptures by Russell as updated by Rutherford could still be corrected: 1920 x 3.14/3 = 2010 so it'll be this winter!
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  22

  NOAH'S FLOOD vs PYRAMIDS

  by elder-schmelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  noah's flood (about 2300 bce).

  pyramids build:.

  pyramid / pharaohreignfielddjoserc.

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  DrJohnStMark

  Answer to elder-schmelder: Built before the Flood that never happened. Questions for the WTBTS:

  1) Since hundreds of pharaoh's are known from archaeology and their reigns dated, why does the Society not take the list and give their own datings for each of them? Then we should believe... Well, they might get into some trouble, because many of the names are connected to the known history of other nations as well... but here is the challenge to the Brooklyn guys: Update the table http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharaohs

  2) Concerning the dating of the pyramids, a couple of years ago I read Chris Turney's book Bones, Rocks and Stars, with some interesting stuff on independent dating of the pyramids based on astronomical data (nothing to do with Alcyone...). Or is this problem for the Society solved by 'sun standing still' etc?

  3) Another question for the Society: After the Flood, how much time would be needed for such a big nation and a strong civilization to evolve so that it could produce monuments such as the great pyramid? Some time had already been lost in building the first tower and relocating and there were no giants left on earth...
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  25

  Why does every prophecy has to have two (or more) completions?

  by teel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you know the standard jw doctrine, babylon the great, fall of jerusalem, kingship of david, jonah's life you name it, it has to have a "bigger completion" later.

  some of these are actually mentioned in the bible - jesus being the bigger jonah, revelations mentioning the fall of babylon the great many years after the actuall babylon fell, jerusalem falling to babylon was just a precursor to jerusalem falling to the romans, which was just a precursor to... (what now?

  meh... is old age creeping upon me?

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  DrJohnStMark

  drew sagan: I totally killed this thread...

  After you analysis, the slot machine is empty, perhaps... In any case, it is exactly how it goes and I remember that kind of strategy was even recommended in the KM. The level-1 stuff is mostly things you want to believe, the level-2 those you would not like to believe but are made to. Level-3 might contain the things the rank-and-file JWs are never supposed to know (about the history of the organization etc) but some of them learn to know.
  
  Some twenty years ago a well-known convention speaker used the following metaphor in trying to strengthen the trust of the audience in the end-of-this-world predictions of the WT society: "When a fisherman comes to you telling about the big salmon he just got out of the water and starts to pull the salmon out of his bag then, after you see the big head of the fish, you would not think that the rest of it is not salmon, would you?" It perhaps had not come into his mind that some people in the audience knew quite well what the WT predictions had been from the very beginning...
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  6

  Jesus Tempatations by Satan

  by cantleave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have following the thread on the trinity and discussing the points with my wife who has put the following point forward.

  jesus on earth as a man was tempted by satan.

  it is the nature of these temptations which seems to indicate that jesus is not the same being as almighty god.

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  DrJohnStMark

  I like this one too. I am no expert in biblical Greek and have sometimes been wondering what may have been written between the lines in the original text (with the choice of particular phrases), for example where Satan seems to be questioning the whole concept: "If thou be the Son of God..." (Mt.4:6)
  
  It's also fun to see how Satan is "reasoning from the scriptures" exactly the way the Society does, using one verse at a time.
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  66

  Did you Exit the Witnesses Gradually - Or Exit Suddenly - Your Reasons ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought it would be good to discuss it to understand what caused some of us to exit suddenly, or some to exit gradually .. myself , i had been in 44 years , had mentally had doubts for years before exiting - but injustices by the elders and my doubts about the " generation " doctrine led me to exit suddenly one night before a meeting.

  the elders pissed me off , i went to my seat, picked my books up and walked out - never going back.

  so what is your story and reasons ?

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  DrJohnStMark

  I faded out, initiated by being some time physically ill and therefore away from meetings and other activity. I already had had doubts and disagreed on some specific teachings of the WT (such as most other people to be butchered by god or the details of how and when life on earth had emerged) and I already had lost some privileges, but getting out of the control was the turning point.
  
  After it, I was depressed for quite a while, because of some of the (possibly) best years of my life wasted in the organization and, more important, because of the situation in the family: Around me I saw too much unfulfilled life or life unlived and no way out (I had been a born-in JW). Then there was a period of trying to catch up, maybe to compensate for the lost years, studying and working very hard, getting absorbed with culture etc... and fading, trying not to loose contact with my family members hoping to help them.
  
  Some years later an elder of the local JW congregation contacted me asking if I could consider returning active again and saying that they might have use for me in the congregation (I had not been disfellowshipped). I said no and told him why. After that I have had no direct contact with the org.
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  23

  Did you ever feel being a JW was like ...

  by sacolton in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having a license to be a complete douchebag to others?

  it did for me.

  i could automatically judge and condemn those who i didn't know and feel superior towards "worldly" people.. .

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  DrJohnStMark

  dgp:when one of the worldlies showed you true affection and appreciation, and perhaps even love, how were you able to make that fit into your beliefs?

  There was someone waiting/deserving to be converted to JW.
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  32

  Pink Songbooks - Green Bibles

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  those of us who've been around long enough will understand the title.

  what we are looking for here are examples of the society's lack of taste.. for example, i'm sure our kingdom hall wasn't the only one in the 70's with dark brown carpeting that rose halfway up the walls and a nice trendy rubber plant in the corner of the platform!.

  nic'.

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  DrJohnStMark

  I learned to read from the orange-cover "Parasite book" and remember also the freaky colors of the figures... like the figure where Jehovah kills a small girl holding her doll. Remember also the pink songbook, the green NWT Bible and the ugly grayish-green book "Make your family life hell". The WTBTS rainbow is still easy to recognize in the shelf of the public library...
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  23

  Did you ever feel being a JW was like ...

  by sacolton in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having a license to be a complete douchebag to others?

  it did for me.

  i could automatically judge and condemn those who i didn't know and feel superior towards "worldly" people.. .

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  DrJohnStMark

  Finally-Free:...she'd gently pat me on the thigh and say, "Don't worry dear, he'll die at armageddon."

  I remember hearing the same and always felt it was awful. One JW, who lived in the same block with me for about ten years, used to comment on our non-JW neigbours' deaths: "They all die." Not us, that is.

  And the most hair-raising statement of all, which I heard a few times from so-called mature elders: "He died as disfellowshipped."
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  33

  I Talked To A JW At A Bar Last Night

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he's a nephew of my good friend that i hang with, he's 48, married, used to have a beard, and is very much a terrific person.... except that he's a witness.. he then smiled and said, "i know, i know, i know.

  "...and bought me a beer and talked about other stuff for a half hour..

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  DrJohnStMark

  minimus: Methink Jesus would have a drink with us too!

  After we told him some things, I think he would drink a lot.