Posts by Norcal

16

Hypnotic Language Patterning

by Simon Morley in

i have not attended any meetings for three months but recently i was struck by a strange recollection of something common to most meetings i attended.

at every meeting, regardess of the time of day, frame of mind, secular workload, etc, i would feel i was being lulled into a numbing sleep.

it was not that the material was boring to me (i have attended many boring secular conferences and never experienced the strange effect that a meeting had on me).

Norcal_Sun

At every meeting, regardess of the time of day, frame of mind, secular workload, etc, I would feel I was being lulled into a numbing sleep.

I just have to weigh in on this... what you said really hit home for me. I always chalked this feeling up to just boredom due to lack of intellectual stimulation. But now I agree that it goes so much farther than that. It is almost like some form of hypnosis. The question and answer format, the repetitive scriptures (there are probably about 100 core scriptures that are constantly being used at the meetings), and the same topics being discussed over and over. If the topic was particularly of interest, I wouldn't get that sleepy feeling, but I know I used to feel it all the time. It almost felt like you were being lulled into a state of complete relaxation.

It is ironic that they stress the importance of the meetings to your spiritual health, because I haven't attended one in 6 months or more, and then decided to go a few weeks back, and its like I have never been gone. There was nothing new or groundbreaking to be observed. I could probably miss 2 years and then go one day only to find they are talking about the same old crap!!

Another interesting phenomenon is when a witness will miss a week or two of meetings, and just feel like something isn't right. I remember experiencing this too. People have even expressed to me that they feel spiritually starving if they miss a few in a row! I guess they like that nice sleepy feeling, and then the subsequent euphoria when the meeting ends

49

interesting email circulating amongst witnesses: gubberning body says preaching reason is..................

by DaCheech in

enjoy these remarks, friends.

and, as always, if you have received this from another source, please just delete, forgive me and move on!

saturday, january 9, 2010, 8:22 am .

Norcal_Sun

What baffles me is the backpedaling and casual attitude about the preaching work in general. I also think it is interesting that they advise people to flee from persecution!! Where was that scripture all those years when people were putting their lives in danger just to distribute the magazines?

If someone with WT Library would like to do a sentence scope search of "Life saving work" I would be interested in what you would find.

I found 121 instances of the phrase in the WT library. Most of it was just admonition to continue in the preaching work and to take it seriously. But here is a quote that directly contradicts the attitude presented by that GB member:

Like Paul, Christians today seek to share the good news with their neighbors at every opportunity. With the “great tribulation” fast approaching, our search for honesthearted ones is urgent. May genuine love for people move us to be diligent in this lifesaving work.—Matt. 24:21; Ezek. 33:8. KM 07/05

160

My Wife is demanding that I stop coming to this board.

by garyneal in

okay, i am in a bit of a dilemma.

since i believe in honesty between marriage mates, i have been telling my wife about this board and my participation on it.

i feel it is only right so that she won't feel like i have anything to hide.

Norcal_Sun

Gary -

I don't have much time to reply right now, but I wanted to make sure that you knew of the website www.jwfacts.com. I assume that you do since it seems to be the best authority on JW contradictions and teachings out there. Anyway if you are researching 1914 my advice would be to use all the quotes from the JW literature that you can find. She can't accuse you of using apostate sources if all the evidence is directly quoted from the Watchtower. Also, be aware of the new "generation" change when you guys do your research.

Anyway maybe I will comment more in depth later.

23

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-30-09 WT Study (STEWARD)

by blondie in

jw
friends

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com.

http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php.

http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/.

Norcal_Sun

My mother wanted me to attend this watchtower study on Sunday. I wanted to go to get the information because it intrigued me, but now I can just find it online!! I wanted to read it to be able to open a dialog with my mom. She told me what a "wonderful" lesson it was.

Man oh man, what a bunch of BS. I love the paragraphs where they make the wild claims by comparing the GB to the elder body in a congregation. Tell me again where any of this is in the bible?

I would agree that this article seems to be going in line with the "generation" change. I also find the holy spirit comment very interesting and of course downright incorrect according to their own doctrine. Are they trying to discourage people from desiring to be anointed, so maybe some "confused" ones will stop partaking? Now that they have changed the meaning of "this generation" I bet people will be keeping a sharp eye on the memorial partaker numbers every year.

60

What response would you give to this JW illustration ?

by troubled mind in

my jw in laws send us these types of emails every once in a while .

never is there any real personal correspondence from them and it irritates me.

i have sent emails back before critiquing the logic of some of their emails.. i will be sending a response to this latest one ,and i would appreciate some ideas .. i know many of you on this forum are so excellant with your words i would enjoy your input .. the first thing that came to my mind after i read the illustration was "i am so glad i am no longer on the endless tread mill of witness logic that has you running forever from scary imaginary spirit beings ".

Norcal_Sun

LOL, my mom just sent me this today!

26

Do you pray these days?

by highdose in

i was wondering if anyone here prays anymore?

what do you call god?

what role do you think god plays in your life?

Norcal_Sun

I never did understand prayer. What is the deal with saying "pray for so-and-so, they are sick in the hospital?" Do you collect "prayer points" based on how many people pray for you, which determine if God will help you get well or not? What if only one other person prays for you? Does their prayer not have any meaning to god? I mean what is the REAL reason for prayer anyway?

Oh and to answer the question: No, I don't.

22

Is there encouragement and hope for the disfellowshipped?

by Butterflyleia85 in

i am 24 years old i was disfellowshipped at 21 and reinstated last year january then committed a sin and disfellowshipped again five months later.. i don't think i realized what i got into.

i tried hard to fend for myself and get back in, the pressure got to me and i fell out again.

but since i understood what it entailed i fought hard to stay in.

Norcal_Sun

Hello Leia,

Welcome! I think you will find a lot of interesting resources here. I think you will find that these former witnesses are far from the apostates we have been warned against our whole lives (I was raised a witness too). They are good people who could not bring themselves to live a lie and practice a religion they could not prove to themselves. We are taught our whole lives to make the truth our own and read the bible daily. But eventually when we grow up we have to revisit this and make a true decision on what we believe - not what our friends and family believe.

A research topic that I found interesting was the Biblical basis for disfellowshipping. You may have to review other bible translations and outside sources from the WT to get the full research on the matter.

I particularly found it interesting that the only scripture used to explain why disfellowshipped ones are not even to be greeted is found at 2 John 10, which if you read a few verses up at verse 7 you will find that the scripture is speaking of the Antichrist, which obviously does not apply to all sinners.

Other scriptures of note are Matthew 18:15-17 (it would help to reference how Jesus treated tax collectors), 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15, Romans 16:17. You might want to look them up in a few different translations as well. I personally see these scriptures as describing someone being under public reproof, not being shunned from the congregation and forbidden to speak with their family.

When/If you read the elder book, take note of the disfellowshipping offenses and which ones are not based on the Bible.

Anyway I hope you can glean some information from the suggestions posted, and I also hope that you stick around and give us your two cents :)

20

Is it ok to malign another's faith?

by bluecanary in

i've seen this come up on multiple threads.

rather than derail them all, i'd like to talk about it here.. jws seem to feel that it is a form of persecution for anyone to question, doubt or speak negatively of their beliefs or organization.

yet, they are taught to do this to other religions.

Norcal_Sun

There are some excellent points in this thread. I especially enjoyed the Benjamin Franklin letter .

I am of the opinion that anyone's beliefs are fair game for discussion and criticism. Where would science be if no one ever challenged each others theories?

Malign is an interesting word to use because it moves way beyond criticism. I personally don't feel that its very helpful to do something like this because most people won't put any weight in what you have to say if it has an obvious tone of bitterness.

If a religion is practicing harmful things, then you have no reason to lie about them or go out of your way to slander them further. All you need to do is expose the truth and let people judge for themselves. And if the religion is basically not doing anything harmful but you just disagree with it, then it is of course not ok to lie and spread slander.

So honestly I don't see any good reason to malign a religion unless you have your own agenda beyond exposing the things that they do. Like the WT society for instance. They always need to remind us that false religion is EVIL and are going to be executed by God himself for their heinous deeds.

I agree. But I don't believe anyone's religion should be Maligned. Doctrinal Debates and a Religions past wrongdoings lead to great discussions if done with respect.

This makes me chuckle a little bit, because lets be honest here. Most people are not interested in a debate about their religion's doctrines and shortcomings. You may be going into it with a view to respectful discussion but they usually view it as an outright attack no matter how you try to be objective. Because while many people profess to be religiously open minded, when they are actually faced with a challenge they immediately fall back on the "fact" that they have the truth and you don't.

I just wish people would realize that maybe there is no truth about God, or maybe there are many truths about God...so lets just discuss why we believe what we believe and identify harmful beliefs in the process... and maybe be able to weed them out. Well, this sort of thing will probably not happen for another 1000 years so I am not exactly holding my breath.

31

Serious Omissions in New Watchtower Book

by metatron in

jw
friends

the society's latest book, "bearing thorough witness about god's kingdom" contains two serious omissions.. first, on page 105, it offers an outright lie about the organization and the bible.

"they do not force the scriptures to fit their views.

impartial observers have recognized this fact.

Norcal_Sun

This is probably why there are no bibliographies in the back of any WT publications, lol

67

Mental Illness with Jehovah's Witnesses

by Hope4Others in

this presentation goes over jerry bergman's research on mental illness with jehovah's witnesses.

this includes over 8 different research projects conducted by different doctors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urbxtvuat1g.

Norcal_Sun

If you have read my intro post you know my husband suffered from severe depression the last few years. His was more caused by the witnesses and his abusive childhood, but I also think he has a mild bipolar disorder as well.

I don't really know if there is a direct correlation between Witnesses and depression, but I can think of a few reasons why more depressive people would be drawn to such an organization. I will use an example of my MIL. She was raised in the organization but over the years she has had 2 marriages and 3 children. She was a stay at home mom and never has really worked outside the home. So now she is 55, divorced, poor, and has an alcohol problem, and she refuses to take any responsibility for herself. Why would she need to when paradise is "just around the corner?" Her whole outlook is that of a victim of this wicked world, and that any and all efforts to improve her life would be futile. It sure is a convenient way to think, and effectively takes you out of the equation. Everything is either controlled by God or Satan, so if you have a depressed attitude, it seems to mesh nicely. And you can wallow in your sorrow all the while feeling completely justified. Now most witnesses don't take this approach. I more often see people constantly denying themselves of what they want to do because they want to "put the kingdom first." This usually ends up in them being very dissatisfied and discouraged.

Also people who are dissatisfied with life and the world can rest easy knowing that everything will ultimately be taken care of. Even though this doesn't cure their depression, people can sometimes push it to the back for a long time.

Norcal_Sun

Posts by Norcal_Sun