Posts by sd-7

17

WT Articles on the "sacred secret", please

by sd-7 in

can someone please post an article or three about "the sacred secret"?

i'm studying this topic with my wife for family worship and i need to refresh my memory on wt doctrine in this regard.

(i know it's basically like this: "seed" foretold at gen. 3:15-->abraham-->isaac-->jacob-->david-->christ-->144,000-->"things on the earth" or "other sheep".

sd-7

Cameo-d--I appreciate the information, but I'm really looking for Watchtower articles on this subject. Really.

--Today is Lightday, Logos 24th, 1977 J.Y.R.

SD-7

10

Observation on 'new light' on this generation

by isaacaustin in

observation:.

understand jesus words about "this generation"?.

he evidently meant that the lives of the anointed.

Are you kiddin'? It's time to face up to the reality that you will never grow old in this system of things. But if you do, by some chance, and especially if you ignore us and get an education and make lots of money in this dying system of things, make sure you donate your will/trust/investments, payable to 'Watch Tower' (that's two words).

SD-7

17

WT Articles on the "sacred secret", please

by sd-7 in

can someone please post an article or three about "the sacred secret"?

i'm studying this topic with my wife for family worship and i need to refresh my memory on wt doctrine in this regard.

(i know it's basically like this: "seed" foretold at gen. 3:15-->abraham-->isaac-->jacob-->david-->christ-->144,000-->"things on the earth" or "other sheep".

sd-7

Can someone please post an article or three about "the sacred secret"? I'm studying this topic with my wife for Family Worship and I need to refresh my memory on WT doctrine in this regard.

(I know it's basically like this: "seed" foretold at Gen. 3:15-->Abraham-->Isaac-->Jacob-->David-->Christ-->144,000-->"things on the earth" or "other sheep". That's the "administration" according to Ephesians chapter 1. But obviously I can't just say that or wifey will get mad and think I didn't prepare and continue to doubt my capacity for headship and all that.)

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

SD-7

26

"Secret Watchtower" - No, there is NO Secret Watchtower

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

so as not to hijack other threads, i still can't understand why people keep referring to the new, "members only" watchtower as "secret?".

if you go to the meeting, you will get a copy.

if you have a family member, you can get a copy.

sd-7

It's not a 'secret' Watchtower at all. It's really just "insider doctrine", as opposed to the "outsider doctrine" offered to the public. There are very specific terms that you will never see in a Public Edition that are in nearly every Study Edition. Like, "obey the faithful slave". True, we could never say that to the public and have it mean something or make sense. Even so, in its own way, it's like a code that only insiders can understand. A person walking in off the street doesn't comprehend what's being said when we're told to 'obey the faithful slave's direction'. He or she could infer that the 'faithful slave' must be some sort of faceless leader who must be obeyed.

Our information is accessible by the public, should the public express interest in seeking it. But there is such a thing as hiding in plain sight, after all. By using language that only JWs understand, the study edition can be pretty confusing for an outsider at first glance. This is not a particularly relevant discussion. What is said to the public is generally the opposite of what is said to us. July 2009 Awake!, anyone? The public is told that there should be freedom to worship God as one sees fit. The insiders are told that freedom is dangerous, usually offered by Satan or apostates to trick us into thinking we can serve God without his organization. With such glaring differences, it becomes a moot point, doesn't it?

SD-7

385

NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower

by Ultimate Reality in

from jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .

article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.

13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.

sd-7

You finally did it! You blew it up! Ham you! Ham you all to shell! I don't believe it. They really wiggled out of it. It's like politics, my gosh! Rather than just admit being wrong, submit to the guidance of the Bible and stop speculating about the end, they just found a new way to make it seem like they could predict it, narrow it down somehow. Perhaps, sadly, recent events are only helping solidify in people's minds the things they're being taught.

"Many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he', and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them."--Luke 21:8

SD-7

20

The Assembly Experiences - Standard Format

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

matthew 6:1: "take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your father who is in the heavens.".

"now we'd like to call to the platform brother so-and-so, a [let's face it, capital letters should be used] regular pioneer and elder in the blah-blah-blah congregation.

brother so-and-so, what helped you to put kingdom interests first?".

sd-7

Matthew 6:1: "Take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens."

"Now we'd like to call to the platform Brother So-and-so, a [let's face it, capital letters should be used] Regular Pioneer and Elder in the Blah-Blah-Blah congregation. Brother So-and-so, what helped you to put Kingdom interests first?"

So-and-so: "Well, Brother Speaker, I had been employed at my current job for blah-blah-blah years. I soon realized that I was not doing enough to praise Jehovah. So I went to my employer and made what some might see as an unusual request."

Speaker: "What request did you make, Brother?"

So-and-so: "I asked for two days off per week in order to expand my ministry."

Speaker: "That must have taken some courage."

So-and-so: "Yes, it did."

Speaker: "And how did your employer react?"

So-and-so: "Well, he said to me that I could have Thursday and Friday off, but only if I didn't bother coming back to work on that Monday."

[Audience 'oohs' or 'laughs']

So-and-so: "I took that to mean that I would probably be fired, but I decided to put my trust in Jehovah, knowing that if I sought his Kingdom first, he would provide for my needs. So I did indeed take Thursday and Friday off."

Speaker: "What happened after that, Brother?"

So-and-so: "On Monday, I called my employer to ask him if I still had a job. He assured me that I did, that what he meant was that I could take THREE days off a week and come in on Tuesday."

[Audience 'OOOOH!']

So-and-so: "I continue working part-time, and this has been a blessing from Jehovah that has enabled me to pioneer and handle my theocratic responsibilities wisely."

Speaker: "Thank you, Brother So-and-so--" [applause interrupts him, but he continues anyway] "--for demonstrating to us how we can be faithful to Jehovah and put Kingdom interests first. So, friends, can you perhaps make adjustments in your work schedule and qualify for the full-time ministry? A long-time pioneer named Susan says the following: "Anyone and everyone can pioneer. The only thing that ever disqualifies us is our own attitude." Should we not have similar zeal for the ministry?" [Speaker gets really loud] "Then BY ALL MEANS, LET US CONTINUE PUTTING FORTH EFFORT TO PUT GOD'S KINGDOM INTERESTS FIRST!!!"

[Audience claps; end of talk]

Am I right, or am I wrong?

SD-7

1

"Bearing Thorough Witness", page 115, paragraph 19

by sd-7 in

"bearing thorough witness about god's kingdom", page 115, paragraph 19:.

"that peace and unity now existed in the antioch congregation was clearly evident.

rather than contending with the brothers from jerusalem, the brothers in antioch treasured the visit of judas and silas, for it was only after "they had passed some time, they were let go in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them out," that is, back to jerusalem.

sd-7

"Bearing Thorough Witness About God's Kingdom", page 115, paragraph 19:

"That peace and unity now existed in the Antioch congregation was clearly evident. Rather than contending with the brothers from Jerusalem, the brothers in Antioch treasured the visit of Judas and Silas, for it was only after "they had passed some time, they were let go in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them out," that is, back to Jerusalem. * (Acts 15:33) We can be sure that the brothers in Jerusalem also rejoiced when they heard what the two men had to say about their journey. Thanks to Jehovah's undeserved kindness, their mission was happily accomplished!"

Footnote reads: "In verse 34, some Bible translations insert words to the effect that Silas chose to remain in Antioch. (King James Version) However, such words appear to be later additions." [Can they cite a source on that statement? Just being curious here, not critical, because I don't know.]

Acts 15:40: "Paul selected Silas and went off after he had been entrusted by the brothers to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah." Guess the issue is, did this 'entrusting by the brothers' occur in Antioch or Jerusalem?

Note that the 'bt' book, as it is called in shorthand, says Silas went back to Jerusalem. If this is true, then in order for Paul to have selected Silas to come with him on his missionary tour thereafter, assuming Paul was still in Antioch (which clearly he was 'after some days', according to verse 36--likely the Bible would've mentioned it if he went back to Jerusalem) he either would have had to (a) go back to Jerusalem to pick him up or (b) wait for him to come all the way from Jerusalem. Unless (c) Silas went to Jerusalem and came back 'after some days' and was on hand to join Paul.

The context of Acts 15:35-41 makes it clear that Paul was still in Antioch, hence how he could get right into heading to Syria and Cilicia, which would have been a long journey from Jerusalem. It seems more logical that Silas really did stay in Antioch. Any thoughts on this? Is the Society just stretching it to make it look like everybody has to report back to Jerusalem (or shall we say, Brooklyn)? Or did Silas more likely go back to Jerusalem after all?

SD-7

8

First Thessalonians - some thoughts to share

by sd-7 in

in just this one letter, i found some very interesting thoughts.

in the context of those who are jehovah's witnesses and claim that their religion is modeled after first-century christianity, i think we are faced with a few questions and some real food for thought.

let's get right into it.. the first thing i notice, in having read all 5 chapters, is the significant near-absence of the name jehovah.

sd-7

Perry, donuthole--good points. I think there probably is some basis for the needs of a travelling minister to be met. I guess I was calling into question how that is done in some cases. Although Jesus said for a time that his disciples could be compensated with food and the like for their ministry, just before his death, he advised them to take up their own food pouches, right? Just a thought.

I know my analysis wasn't perfect; I'm still re-learning the Bible, after all, and sometimes my thoughts aren't exactly accurate or complete. Guess I'll have to live with that. It sucks.

SD-7

8

First Thessalonians - some thoughts to share

by sd-7 in

in just this one letter, i found some very interesting thoughts.

in the context of those who are jehovah's witnesses and claim that their religion is modeled after first-century christianity, i think we are faced with a few questions and some real food for thought.

let's get right into it.. the first thing i notice, in having read all 5 chapters, is the significant near-absence of the name jehovah.

sd-7

Oh! I didn't realize this entry was so long! I'm sorry...I'll be more careful next time.

SD-7

8

First Thessalonians - some thoughts to share

by sd-7 in

in just this one letter, i found some very interesting thoughts.

in the context of those who are jehovah's witnesses and claim that their religion is modeled after first-century christianity, i think we are faced with a few questions and some real food for thought.

let's get right into it.. the first thing i notice, in having read all 5 chapters, is the significant near-absence of the name jehovah.

sd-7

In just this one letter, I found some very interesting thoughts. In the context of those who are Jehovah's Witnesses and claim that their religion is modeled after first-century Christianity, I think we are faced with a few questions and some real food for thought. Let's get right into it.

The first thing I notice, in having read all 5 chapters, is the significant near-absence of the name Jehovah. The name Jehovah is mentioned--and even Jason David BeDuhn would say, inserted without basis in the earliest copies of the Greek text--3 times. Count them. One (4:6), two (4:15), three (5:2). Three times, in a letter of this length? How many times was the name Jesus Christ mentioned? 18 times. Eighteen. Six times more than Jehovah, even in the NWT. The old song book, in contrast, has songs devoted to Jesus--only HALF as many as are devoted to Jehovah. Based on the first-century Christian model, what is the real truth? God was referred to primarily as God the Father, the same way Jesus Christ himself referred to God during his ministry and during ALL of his prayers.

Chapter 2, verses 3 through 9, are also revealing: "For the exhortation we give does not arise from error or from uncleanness or with deceit, but, just as we have been proved by God as fit to be entruted with the good news, so we speak, as pleasing, not men, but God, who makes proof of our hearts...Neither have we been seeking glory from men, no, either from you or from others, though we could be an expensive burden as apostles of Christ...It was with working night and day, so as not to put an expensive burden upon any one of you, that we preached the good news of God to you."

Paul makes clear that error doesn't come into the picture with the message given to the congregations. Can the Governing Body make the same claim? The Proclaimers book itself demonstrates a long history of errors that were given as exhortation not just to those inside the congregation, but to many, many people outside.

Secondly, Paul makes clear that he and his fellow ministers did not demand that their living expenses be met. Rather, they worked hard to take care of their own needs so as not to be an expensive burden on the congregation. True, no one 'demands' anything from a member of the congregation amongst Jehovah's Witnesses today. It's voluntary. However, when the travelling overseer visits, does he pay for his own expenses? Or is a resolution--consistently passed unanimously--provided to pay for his expenses? Would anyone in the congregation simply refuse to pay for his expenses on the basis of this scripture? Could they do so openly? Would there be no consequences if they did so openly? Maybe. But it's unlikely the elders would merely ignore such action. Any honest Witness has to admit this. (Intellectual intimidation on my part there--thanks, Rutherford!)

I'll skip the whole 'rapture' issue, because it gets complicated. But it certainly contradicts any notion of an 'invisible presence' of Jesus Christ. Because Paul makes clear that those who "survive to the PRESENCE of the Lord" will be "caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air". If Jesus has been present since 1914, either this hasn't happened, or Russell & gang were not really anointed after all. Obviously, no Witness would accept that reasoning--either that Jesus is not present, or that Russell was not anointed. But either one or the other has to be true, or else this scripture is completely untrue.

How about Chapter 5, verse 3? "Whenever it is that they are saying: "Peace and security!" then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them." I came to realize that to suggest that this demands some specific, recognizable cry of 'peace and security' does not make logical sense. Reading this verse in its context, we can see that Paul says that the day of wrath comes as a thief. Suddenly, unexpectedly. The reason why Christians are not overly shocked when that 'sudden destruction' occurs is, not because they've been on pins and needles since some specific year (ie. 1914, 1874, or since 'the generation of anointed ones'), but because they were CONSTANTLY AWAKE spiritually, not worrying about some random calculation or what this sign or that sign means. They are generally alert, focused on the Christ. They haven't stopped working and sold all their stuff and stood on a mountain or something like that. They have maintained a balanced, reasonable awareness of the nearness of Christ's presence--which, from the apostles' viewpoint, 2,000 years ago, was very near then. Notice too that the apostles did not endeavor to lay out a specific timetable for the end; they merely encouraged faithful Christians to keep their senses, just as Jesus asked them to do.

I notice also that very little detail is given as far as comments on 'organizational procedure', as is common in letters from the Society's headquarters. Nor does Paul micromanage their lives and try to tell them if they should accept a Saturnalia bonus or something like that. He just encourages them not to fornicate and to keep loving their brothers. Basically, love God, love your neighbor, done. | That's what I call Nextel-style Christianity.

In reading the Bible itself, it does become clear what Christianity is about. People need to open their eyes to the Bible's message, not through someone else's literature, but through the pages of God's Word alone. A lot more can be learned that way. I won't lie--I do think that Jehovah's Witnesses publish a lot of good material, so far as they stick to the direct message of scripture. I just think that we must also recognize that it is possible to understand as much of the Bible as any human can--without Jehovah's organization in mind. Holy spirit is not bound up in a particular group of people who figure it all out for us. That's not a personal relationship with God; that's relationship by proxy. Outsourcing one's conscience is at the root of much of mankind's problems to begin with.

That's all for me. Take care.

SD-7