inbetween

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Posts by inbetween

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  69

  Any videogamers here?

  by R.F. in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  this is my #1 hobby.

  i have a ps2, psp, and xbox.

  i was mainly an xbox kind of guy until they completely abandoned it soon after the 360 was released.

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  inbetween

  anybody know "mass effect " ? Got it recently on PC, loved it.

  Normally I´m into history based real time strategy and fantasy based RPG, both on PC and console (PS3).

  oh and occasionally a sport or race game.....
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  53

  Do Active Witnesses Find Meetings Exciting?

  by Band on the Run in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  kh meetings were utter hell.

  the boredom, particularly for a child, was awful.

  i feel it was a form of child abuse.

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  inbetween

  boring, mostly boring, especially the service meeting,

  what kind of is interesting are the highlights, at least closest to the bible. the rest, man...so boring.....

  the watchtower and bookstudy can be a bit more interesting, if you did not prepare....then at least you can get angry about it, when you read it the first time ;-)
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  105

  New Light @ The 2011 District Convention

  by dontplaceliterature in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " at the bottom of the image on the back of the invitation raises some eyebrows, but last night in the routine district convention article during the service meeting, i caught that one of the paragraphs mentioned that we would be encouraged to keep a copy of the tract in hand for a discussion during sunday's last talk.

  my guess is, there is going to be some new revelation about what the "?

  " represents, or some other fangled idea.

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  inbetween

  no, you got it all wrong,

  the ten toes, are part of the "comely feet, bringing good news". So they represent as their number 10 shows, the complete earthly part of Gods organisation, being busy spreading literature, .....oh sorry, good news.

  As Math 24:14 says, afterwards the end will come, the stone from the mountain will hit the statue. What will remain ? Only the toes, low and humble enough, will not be destroyed.

  Lesson for dubs: keep busy in preaching and humbly obey the GB, then the big stone will not kill you...
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  20

  Is the governing body any different from Osama Bin Laden?

  by Joliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  justifying people willing dying over the blood tranfusion issue is the same as osama justifying killing anyone who did not agree with his religious beliefs?

  ?.

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  inbetween

  standfirm:

  People who become JWs do so with the full knowledge that we do not accept blood transfusions, and of the teaching on DF/DA persons. When they refuse blood they do so with full knowledge of whatever possibility of harm there may be in doing so. No one forced them to become JWs.

  So what about minors being babtized ? Do you really think a 12 year old, trying to please mum and dad, trusting whatever they say, can understand all the implications of the blood issue for example ?

  Even adults, in order to make a real free decision, would you not agree, one has to be able to carefully weigh all arguments in such a serious matter ?

  I can tell you, in my congo usually I got the parts on the program about blood, because it was thought, I had a good grasp of this rather complicated issue, and I believed it too. Well, after reading many arguments here and elsewhere about blood, I can honestly say, I knew nothing. The society only presents information, that is in line with their doctrine, while on the same time discouraging strongly to look elsewhere. People should not make an informed decsion, rather this is manipulation. Embarrassing for Gods true people, inmho !!

  Further, usually what happens in an operating room can be kept confidential. And no one is forced to fill out a DPA. Some JWs do not have theirs filled out (I suspect mostly because of laziness). So a JW who really wants can accept blood without DAing themselves.

  As Morbidzbaby mentioned, its rather hard to keep things private, but thats not the issue here anyway. I can keep fornication private, if I really make it smart. The point is, when it is known to the elders, a JC will be set up.

  Finally, 'refusing blood' does not equal death. Nearly every procedure can be done and has been done with no blood transfusions.

  True, and also true that transfusions are often used too easily and fast by some medical staff, the same as operations are done too quick or antibiotics are prescribed, when its not needed. But its not the business of any religion to interfere with medical treatment of a patient. And to my surprise a few years ago, I was told by an HLC member, that there still are situations, were the question is, death or blood. It was one of the enlightneing moments for me to took this issue serious and make research somewhere else. Before JW are usually made to believe, there is anyway always an alternative treatment, that is even much better than any blood transfusion.
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  39

  Did you beleive you were A intellectual when you were a JW

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am embarrass to say when i was a jw and a elder i. thought i could sit down and speak on any subject with.

  anyone intelligently.

  i felt the schooling of the wt had.

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  inbetween

  excellent point, wobble, its an absolut information-control the society uses.

  additonally who really takes time to check the information given, when your supposed to trust the society, and any "apostate" info is just lies and demonized anyway.
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  7

  universal souvereignty

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the wts in the garden of eden, through the temptation of satan, the issue of universal souvereignty was being brought up.

  the answer came in our time, when it was clear, that humans cannot govern themselves, and satans rule is destructive and bad.. however, looking at the events, what did satan question ?

  he said, that by eating the fruit, the first couple will not die, but be like god.. about 900 something years later, they died and nowehere became like god.. at least then, the question was answered, case closed.. but jw fabricate something out of it in order to proof their endtime prophecy and cnetere themselve in the socalled issue of souvereignty..

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  inbetween

  according to the WTS in the garden of Eden, through the temptation of Satan, the issue of universal souvereignty was being brought up. The answer came in our time, when it was clear, that humans cannot govern themselves, and Satans rule is destructive and bad.

  However, looking at the events, what did satan question ? He said, that by eating the fruit, the first couple will not die, but be like God.

  About 900 something years later, they died and nowehere became like God.

  At least then, the question was answered, case closed.

  But JW fabricate something out of it in order to proof their endtime prophecy and cnetere themselve in the socalled issue of souvereignty.
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  39

  Did you beleive you were A intellectual when you were a JW

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am embarrass to say when i was a jw and a elder i. thought i could sit down and speak on any subject with.

  anyone intelligently.

  i felt the schooling of the wt had.

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  inbetween

  an intellectual ? I dont know, but I always thought I am intelligent, and had never a fear of discussing anything. However, even in service, most people have no idea how to talk to JW. Their arguments are easy refuted.

  Now, after reading a lot on the internet, I wonder how so long I swallowed such nonsense, even defended it. unbelievable, to the point, where today I question my intelligence more than ever....
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  20

  Is the governing body any different from Osama Bin Laden?

  by Joliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  justifying people willing dying over the blood tranfusion issue is the same as osama justifying killing anyone who did not agree with his religious beliefs?

  ?.

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  inbetween

  Standfirm: Not at all. Anyone who refuses a blood transfusion does so of their own free will. No one forced them. This includes accepting the consequences that may bring, including death, although this is very rare.

  so, no one forces people not to agree with Osama bin Laden then ? If all converted to Islam and followed Osama, no one would have to die right ? Is that your definition of free will ?

  You as an active and seemingly theocratic well versed Witness, you know, that accepting a blood transfusion leads to a Judicial comittee, no doubt. There , one has to repent, which is feeling deep remorse over the sin. Now, if that transfusion saved your life, how can you real feel remorse over that ?

  Either you pretend regret (what else can it be, unless somebody is really suizidal) or you get dfd (technically you disassociate, but thats just semantics and any genuine person has to admit that)
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  151

  Introducing Myself

  by StandFirm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to jwn!

  this is standfirm.

  i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.

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  inbetween

  standfirm:

  thanks for your reply,

  regarding the last WT, the problem is, the basic ideas are indeed based on the bible, but the WTS does not stick to the biblical message alone, it goes and adds its own rules and interpretations:

  example:

  occult:

  the scripture was Deuteronomy 18:10-12. In order to undertsand the strong notion against spiritism, one needs to consider the context, something we always should do, right ? Here it talks about the sourrounding nations looking for direction to spiritistic practices. Instead Jehovah told them only to listen to his prophets. This was very important, a nation among hostile people needed clear direction from God in order to survive. Any distraction from other sources would be damaging.

  Well. nobody who believes the bible, would today get involved in spiritism for much the same reason. But what God warned against is practizing spiritism in all its forms. To read, listen to, watch or play something that features uncanny practices is not the same ! Its a usually a product of someones phantasy. If you want to read real demonic stories, just read the bible ! The principle, also from the context for Deuteronomy 18, is clearly not to contact any other spirit sources. Anything else goes beyond what is written, to control people on what they can watch on TV is taking away the freedom of a Christian using his bible (not watchtower) trained conscience.

  disfellowshipping:

  do we have to go there ? ok, the bible does not condone certain wrongs, like 1. Corinthinas 6:9-11 shows, and of course the command to remove the wicked in 1. Cor 5.

  But how should it be done ?

  first of all, Paul wrote to quit mixing company with someone who is a brother and fornicates, extortions etc.

  The WTS combines this with another scripture in John, were, again the context shows, somebody who denies Christ should not even be greeted. John did not make any connection, which would clearly show, that this command would be an addition to Pauls advice, not to mix company. So why does the WTS fabricate any connection ?

  Furthermore, while Paul mentioned a number of sins, which may lead to "removing the wicked", there is no metnion of reasons the WTS fabricates like: taking blood, smoking, celebrating Christmas, taking civil service (until 96) etc...

  Additional the way disfellowshipping ni handled has no basis in the scriputres. Where in the bible is a secret court of three eldes mentioned, who decide that the whole congregation cannot associate with someone anymore, even though they have usually no idea why ?

  Didnt Paul clearly address the problem in his letter, so everybody knew, what was the problem (a guy sleeping with his mother?)

  And when it comes to family members, where in the bible is the difference mentioned between a close relative living in the same household or not ?

  How does the matter apply to anybody who simply disassociates himself, without any wrongdoing ?

  Standfirm there is a difference between being based on the scriputres and being firmly established in the sciptures. Even the witch hunt of the middle ages was based on the bible.

  inbetween
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  151

  Introducing Myself

  by StandFirm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to jwn!

  this is standfirm.

  i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.

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  inbetween

  welcome standfirm,

  as a still active witness, I appreciate an apologist here on this forum, because sometimes ideas get too onesided, all agree with some "apostate" statements. It always adds to a discussion to hear the other side as well, if it is well presented. This I missed lately a lot, apologists like djeggnogg, or scholar, to me they seemed either a bit strange or they avoided certain specific questions.

  My personal conviction is to keep an open mind to every fact or logic that is presented, no matter form which "side".

  I also read a lot of apostate websides and arguments, and while I got a better understanding of for example why trinity or immortal soul are so widespread, an understanding the WTS never presented, i still think, the bible does not really support these teachings.

  To me, the problem of the WTS is not so much their core doctrines, they even might be closer to the socalled "truth" than most other religions, the problem with the WTS I see, is that they go totally "pharisee" with the main message of the bible, rules and regulations, control and prominence. (just look at the last WT study article)

  The fact alone, that we only can have those discussions in an anonymous internet forum, and not at the kingdom hall, shows of the repressive nature of the org.

  Anyway, really loking forward to your contributions,

  welcome once more,

  inbetween