universal souvereignty

by inbetween 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • inbetween

    according to the WTS in the garden of Eden, through the temptation of Satan, the issue of universal souvereignty was being brought up. The answer came in our time, when it was clear, that humans cannot govern themselves, and Satans rule is destructive and bad.

    However, looking at the events, what did satan question ? He said, that by eating the fruit, the first couple will not die, but be like God.

    About 900 something years later, they died and nowehere became like God.

    At least then, the question was answered, case closed.

    But JW fabricate something out of it in order to proof their endtime prophecy and cnetere themselve in the socalled issue of souvereignty.

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz


    one very tall tale indeed, and one i dare say makes no sense at all.


  • fresia

    everything depends upon obedience to Gods laws. Thats it in a nutshell.

  • Terry

    The Watchtower Society simply lifted the scenario directly from Seventh Day Adventist writer ELLEN WHITE's book THE GREAT CONTROVERSY and transferred it into their own writings.

    The Great Controversy is a book written by Ellen G. White, one of the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and held in esteem as a prophet of God among SDA members. It describes the "Great Controversy theme" between Jesus and Satan, as played out over the millennia from its start in heaven, to its final end when the world is destroyed and recreated. Regarding the reason for writing the book, the author reported: "In this vision at Lovett’s Grove (in 1858), most of the matter of the Great Controversy which I had seen ten years before, was repeated, and I was shown that I must write it out." [1] The theme of the original small book was expanded first to a four-volume set of books (1870-1884) and then to a separate volume in 1888. The current, 1911 edition is also one of the five-volume "Conflict of the Ages" set. The 1884, 1888, and 1911 books incorporate historical data from other authors.

    The original book was written largely for an Adventist audience with a focus on showing how God had led them up to and through the 1844 movement, and preparing them for the end times by describing the events that will occur in the Christian churches and in the world before Jesus returns. Later editions were written largely for a non-Adventist audience, to be used as an evangelistic tool. The first presentation of the concept was published in 1858, with a later presentation in a four-volume expansion in 1870-1884 (see table below). The book was first published on its own in 1888, and then the last edition during the author's lifetime was published in 1911.

  • ProdigalSon

    God said they would die in that very day. The serpent said they would not die in that very day. They did not die in that very day, they died, as you said, 900 some odd years later. After they ate the fruit, "God" and whoever he was hanging with in Heaven did indeed confirm that the couple "has become like one of us, knowing good and bad".

    Perhaps I can suggest a solution to this quandary. Jesus, along with Buddha, and the Dalai Lama, and many other spiritual teachers, have an awful lot to say about being judgmental. When we judge others, or even inanimate things, we become blind as bats to the true reality of them or it, instead of merely "observing" and having gratitude for all things we may learn from any experience, good or bad. The eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad represents our fallen state of judging, cutting ourselves off from the Divine source, which is pure unconditional love, compassion, forgiveness and gratitude.

  • Honesty

    issue of universal souvereignty = CULT BUZZWORDS

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    What's started bothering me about this story and the 'issue of universal sovereignty' recently is that the issue was not yet raised before Satan put the temptation before Eve to sin. Even if you take the story to face value - Satan had intent to mislead when he a) developed the feelings b) came down to earth and c) morphed into the serpent, only after that did he raise the issue that God is not fit for ruling mankind (is it really so etc). The problem is that God either didn't know what Satan was up to (he was being sneaky and God missed it?) or that God didn't care or had some other motive for allowing Satan to get those desires of power, set up a scenario to mislead mankind and bring sin upon all.

    It's like seeing a family member walking around in your house with a gun drawn, loaded and pointed at somebody's head and you say 'meh, I can't imagine what he would do with that'.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    There must be much significance that of all the fruit of trees, they could not eat the tree of knowledge's fruit. Clearly, it is metaphor. I fail to see the point. The only point I see is that God is arbitrary and capricious. He allowed no defenses or due process. I don't believe the author of Genesis meant to say anything actually happened. It must serve a larger point of obedience.

    Does anyone know if other Semitic cultures have such a creation story? It strikes me that this is very preJewish.

    When did it become an apple, too? Apples don't seem sinful compare to oranges or cantelopues.

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