Posts by inbetween

32

Why the Dinosaur in the Green NWT Bible?

by VM44 in

jw
friends

inside the front cover of the green new world translation.

bibles is a map, and in the map is a drawing of a dinosaur.. does anyone know why the dinosaur is there?.

this is something i have actually wondered about for years.. perhaps someone here might know the answer.. --vm44

inbetween

omg, forgot all about this map. loved it as a kid though....

22

when i was fully in, i never even heard of ray franz or his books.. after learning the truth about the truth, what woke me up, was in the first place the inconsistency of doctrine, the missing logic and the bending of the scripture to fit their theology.. personal experiences i took with a grain of salt.

therefore, even though i learned about "crisis of conscience" i did not bother reading it.

personally i did not doubt, that what he wrote would be true, but i thought, it would not help somebody to get out, because, its his personal experience, which proves nothing in the end.

inbetween

When i was fully in, I never even heard of Ray Franz or his books.

After learning the truth about the truth, what woke me up, was in the first place the inconsistency of doctrine, the missing logic and the bending of the scripture to fit their theology.

Personal experiences I took with a grain of salt. Therefore, even though I learned about "Crisis of Conscience" I did not bother reading it. Personally I did not doubt, that what he wrote would be true, but I thought, it would not help somebody to get out, because, its his personal experience, which proves nothing in the end. There is always another side of the story, another viewpoint, that is not presented.

Recently though, i got the chance to read it myself, and I was blown away....

I did not expect such a well documented and well written account. Of course, not everything he says he can show a document for it, but the amount of evidence he could produce was a surprise for me.

Even the correspondence after his disfellowshipping about the recorded tapes show how misleading and unfair the WTS can get if somebody is in their way. The whole matter of his disfellowshipping sounded very similar to the trial of Jesus.

So to anybody who has not read it yet: It really is worth every minute of your time !

11

I am a sheep in wolves' clothing

by Anony Mous in

since i'm not getting out of the jw cult any time soon due to my position and family i decided to do a little contra-action.

maybe some of you can share your stories, experiences and let me know how far you kicked it before you either left or got booted.

my intention is to get people thinking.. - a couple of weeks ago i had a demonstration on stage.

inbetween

Doing the same here, focus on authentic bible message. When the WT article emphasises the obedience towards the FDS, I comment something like: "We obey because we can trust and proof to ourselves, that the advice is firmly based on the bible" (hoping somebody will really do this and wake up...)

Whenever they try to push rules, i try to balence it by stressing the importance of principles coupled with freedom and personal responsibility.

I dont know, whether some notice my more liberal approach, or if it falls on deaf ears, like "darthfader"mentioned.

Recently though, I got positive feedback from one sister, she, being fully in mentally, has difficulties with some "rules" and is pretty opne minded.

Anyway, atm it is the only reasonable way for me to stick through and still kind of have a good conscience, and minimize the hypocrite in me....

Oh how often I wish I could just walk out.......sigh...

29

Time Article on Ray Franz - 1985 (scanned)

by waiting in

hey y'all,.

hope this works.

if not, see scanned article under the thread about donating books to the local libraries..

inbetween

bump,

maybe seen before, but look at the post 412 of Pathofthorns:

"Just wait til they say 1935 wasn't then end of the anointed being called. This thing can go on for a long time.

Path"

this was posted in 2000, then 7 years later the Watchtower said just this..(QFR)

"new light" revealed to somebody posting on an apostate forum, holy spirit must have been on the loose

22

Are You Surprised That Certain Witnesses Are Still Associated?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i am.

i know some pretty sharp, critically minded people, and i am surprised they still are active witnesses.

.

inbetween

two possible situations, but the same conclusion:

1) the society is always right, therefore evidence for Gods backing

2) if the society was wrong, it was (will be) corrected by jehovah, therefore evidence of Gods backing.

In line with that, even if some critical JW see something wrong in current teaching, they will wait until point 2) will come true.

42

Did You Tend To Question The Organization Or Did You Just WANT To Believe?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know some who always questioned the elders, the society, and others because they were typically skeptical.. there are those who just seemed to want to believe whatever they were told.. i was more a skeptic, during my last decade.. .

inbetween

doubts i had before awakening:

"1975 fiasco was a mistake of the brothers not the org", always bugged me to blame poor brothers, who before 75 would have been commended as spirtually strong...

"civil service is wrong" (before 96) never understood the reasoning

"birthdays, toasting is wrong, marriage rings, honeymoon ok" were is the consistency ?

"animals will live in peace" just watching my own pets prooved otherwise, they were created to kill and hunt...

"beards" where in the bible does it indicate anything about wearing beards is wrong ?

"higher education" always bugged me, was very happy, when a more reasonable approach came in early 90`s (unfortunately we are back, even worse than before 90)

later on as an elder, therefore according to the org being also a judge reminded me of Jesus warning, not to judge...could not reconcile this

However, here is my point, despite these doubts, despite even acknowledging the fallibility of the GB, it still was Gods org for me.

Only the tighter grip and adding of rules like the famous KM 09/07, the "Gods love"-book, and other rules and regulations made me look somewhere else for information, and here I am....

42

BIG-JW Sues over Blood demand

by Refriedtruth in

jehovah's witness battles in kansas court for bloodless transplant .... kansas city star - brad cooper-1 hour ago.

but she also would have to compromise her jehovah's witness principles, because she would receive a blood transfusion, something she believes violates god's ...transplant case pits religion, medicaid rules -kansas.com.

get in and comment expose deadly watchtower dogma shows how unpractical bloodless elective surgeries can be wants $250.000 k for operation.

inbetween

coffee_black: that is terrible, and I´m very sorry for that. Surely in his mind it must have been a capital sin to take an organ transplant, and he would have lost the favour of God. I also know, the moral liability for that is on the WTS, no doubt.

However, regarding the legal liability, those celebrated lawyers of the society would surely insist, it was a consciences decision, since no church actions would follow, if he accepted an organ transplant. Thats their twist on things, therefore my question was, whether cannibalism would lead to dfd.

42

BIG-JW Sues over Blood demand

by Refriedtruth in

jehovah's witness battles in kansas court for bloodless transplant .... kansas city star - brad cooper-1 hour ago.

but she also would have to compromise her jehovah's witness principles, because she would receive a blood transfusion, something she believes violates god's ...transplant case pits religion, medicaid rules -kansas.com.

get in and comment expose deadly watchtower dogma shows how unpractical bloodless elective surgeries can be wants $250.000 k for operation.

inbetween

dozy: I was not aware of this statement, that judicial actions should not be taken, in the article of 80. Even if there was no case, at least it seemed to be a probability. I´ll have to check, what the current stance is regarding real cannibalism. If this is reason for dfd, then we can conclude, viewing transplant as cannibalsim was indeed ground for dfd, and I withdraw my former statement.

42

BIG-JW Sues over Blood demand

by Refriedtruth in

jehovah's witness battles in kansas court for bloodless transplant .... kansas city star - brad cooper-1 hour ago.

but she also would have to compromise her jehovah's witness principles, because she would receive a blood transfusion, something she believes violates god's ...transplant case pits religion, medicaid rules -kansas.com.

get in and comment expose deadly watchtower dogma shows how unpractical bloodless elective surgeries can be wants $250.000 k for operation.

inbetween

dozy: sorry for nitpicking, but organ transplants, while heavy frowned upon from 67 to 80, were no disfellowshipping offense.

Regarding the case: anybody know, if there were kind of fund rasing among witnesses to pay for this sister, in case she would loose the court case ?

13

How To Properly Interpret The Watchtower Society

by metatron in

jw
friends

i have a long history in this cult, at various levels.

a few of you, out there in cyberspace, share a similar experience - but many do not.. i'm going to tell you how to interpret things that happen in the organization, as well as what is written in the magazines.. it's not terribly difficult because they are so reactionary.

a fellow bethelite corrected me on this point when i accused them of being fascists.

inbetween

sounds about right, the whole structur contributes to that, elders report to CO, CO and DO report to the branch, branch to headquarter, writing department is assigned with corresponding articles....its all reaction, no divine revelation, or at least real leadership....