trebor

Joined

• started 3 topics
• posted 324 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by trebor

• 
  27

  Has anyone ever used a non-NWT (New World Translation) bible at meetings / study?

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  about 1 year ago (before i faded), i purchased an old king james bible from ebay and started using it in the meetings and when a brother came over to study with me.. a common reaction of fellow jws was to stare at the bible, then say "what type of bible is that?

  ", then they'd sometimes ask to look at it, and flip to john 1:1. when they saw what it said, they'd treat it like it was apostate material, even though a few decades earler it was the same bible jws used.. i strongly encourage any lurkers/faders to use another bible at the meetings and see what type of reactions you get.. .

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Love the whole "Johannes Greber" avoidance:

  "The Watchtower Society knew that Johannes Greber was influenced by and made use of the occult as early as February 1956, but still continued using his Bible translation and writings regardless, even as late as April 1976. They tried to give the appearance of ignorance to the facts prior by the 1983 Watchtower referencing a source from 1980.

  To summarize, the Watchtower Society used a source with strong ties to the occult to support their teachings and doctrines for years – Up to 20 years after having knowledge of the fact. When trying to explain such actions they ignored their own well-documented history of the matter. That is both a cover-up and deceitful."

  http://savedfromthewatchtower.blogspot.com/2008/11/influence-of-johannes-greber.html
• 
  9

  Blogging about Selma and Steve

  by Rob Crompton in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wonder if any of you folk have posted anything on your blogs or websites about this scandalous wt article?.

  links, please?.

  here's mine:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Here is another:

  http://savedfromthewatchtower.blogspot.com/2012/05/domestic-violence.html
• 
  834

  Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

  by cantleave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1bzp1wr234&feature=relmfu.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Not a Christian Apologists, but it's wrong for the creator to peddle his merchandise under the guise of religious/theological commentary.

  Yes, this is a poor attempt at sarcasm.

  P.S. Superman is also drawn poorly.
• 
  47

  'Dinah Gets Into Trouble' - Does Story 20 Mean Rape = Fornication?

  by sd-7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was listening, albeit unwittingly, to a 'my book of bible stories' tape and this statement caught me by surprise.

  it's found in story 20:.

  "one day when dinah came to visit, shechem took dinah and forced her to lie down with him.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Here are the quotes straight from Jehovah's channel of truth from the one true organization serving him:

  Watchtower, January 15, 1964,page 64:
  “Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation. The Christian woman who wants to keep clean and obey God’s commandments, then, if faced with this situation today, needs to be courageous and to act on the suggestion made by the Scriptures and scream. Actually this counsel is for her welfare; for, if she should submit to the man’s passionate wishes, she would not only be consenting to fornication or adultery, but be plagued by the shame. There would be shame, not only from the repulsiveness of the experience, but of having been coerced into breaking God’s law by having sex connections with one other than a legal marriage mate.”

  Watchtower, June 1, 1968:
  “Would it be different if the man had a weapon and threatened to kill you if you did not submit? No, the Scriptures plainly state that Christians are under obligation to ‘flee from fornication.’ (1 Cor. 6:18) It is true that you face the possibility of death in this case.”

  Awake! March 8, 1974, page 14.
  “If she did not scream she would be as good as dead anyhow…Also, that if she did not scream she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation; that then she would be disfellowshipped or excommunicated from it and that this would be worse than being killed as far as she was concerned.”

  October 15, 1980, Watchtower, page 7:
  “She told him that if he touched her she would scream as he had never heard anyone scream before. She explained that if she did not she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation….A Christian woman is under obligation to resist, for the issue of obedience to God’s law to ‘flee from fornication’ is involved.”

  February 22, 1984, Awake!: "Treat Him Respectfully – The intended victim should remember that the rapist is a human. No doubt there are circumstances in his life that have precipitated his behavior. So although a woman should not cower in fear and permit a rapist to intimidate her, at the same time she should treat him understandingly as a fellow human.”

  Awake!, February 22, 1984, page 25:
  “But if I gave in and he raped me, I would eventually die and have no hope of a resurrection.”

  May 22, 1986, Awake!,page 23:
  “Why you should resist an attacker from the first moment...Your conscience will be clear. (Even if you are raped, you will not sacrifice your self-respect or cleanness before God)”

  August 22, 1989 Awake!, page 24:
  “It was then that I remembered the scripture in Deuteronomy chapter 22. It says that if a woman does not cry out when attacked, it indicates she is submitting to the man and is committing a sin against Jehovah.”
• 
  41

  Hypocritical statement in the July 15th Watchtower denouncing those who "forsake" family members on religious grounds

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've had a quick glance through the july 15th watchtower, and at first reading there seems nothing too dramatic to report.. the title of the first article "let jehovah guide you to true freedom" seemed ironic to say the least.

  not surprisingly, the way you get more freedom is by relinquishing it entirely to the watch tower society.

  there is also a bizarre statement in the very first paragraph of the article on page 7 (bold highlighted remarks are mine):.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  July 15, 2012,Watchtower, page 24, in the article, "Of Whom Shall I Be In Dread?" under the sub-heading "Trust In God's Help":

  

  "However, many today have had to endure extreme rejection by their family. Yet, many thus forsaken have found help and protection in the warmth of the Christian congregation."

  VS.

  April 15, 2012,Watchtower, page 12, in the article, "Betrayal - An Ominous Sign Of Times!" under the sub-heading "Remain Loyal To Jehovah":

  "However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever tempted to violate God’s command not to associate with your disfellowshipped relatives."

  You have to love it!
• 
  40

  What made you leave?

  by CuriousUK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apologies if this has been discussed before, but i am really very interested in finding out why members here left their congregations for lives away from jw?.

  was there a "lightbulb" moment where you just woke up one day and realised that you had been brainwashed?

  or a slow realisation over time?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Researching about medical 'advice' respecting the blood issue from the CD-ROM library I came across the former stance and flip-flop on organ transplants being cannibalistic. Further Watchtower library research led to me coming across the organization blaming women for rape and being worthy of everlasting destruction without hope of a resurrection if they did not cry out/scream while being raped.

  More research and investigation brought up a history of flip-flops and hypocrisy. Finding their alliance with Jimmy Swaggart in the court, being a part of the United Nations, using the work of Johannes Greber for support of their translation and understanding, "Stay Alive until 75".

  Going back to 'old light', to a new understanding, and even back again on some pivotal teachings such as 'Superior Authorities' (Romans 13:1), 'This Generation' (Mathew 24:34), and one of the most infamous ones 'resurrection of the men of Sodom', just further instilled and proved by their own writings, even more so, how it's just a bunch of men doing their best guesswork which failed miserably at times in running an organization.

  An organization not specially chosen, not selected by God...Just like any other religion at best, fairly seen as a high-level control group, and in numerous opinions and evaluations once all things are considered - a cult.
• 
  10

  Saturday Morning Service

  by Celestial in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a couple of months ago, i thought out plans to go out in field service because i was stimulated by my cousin who's married and has recently been appointed a ministerial servant.

  i thought to myself, if my life-long newly appointed ministerial servant cousin can knock on doors and present the watchtower and awake!

  so can i. so, i can at least progress toward a status other than inactive.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  "I find some interest in the intellectual challenges of viewpoints contrary to my own. You likely don't recollect anything desirable as a foot-soldier for Jehovah the Watch Tower Society's interpretations and teachings. It's impossible for some people. The important thing is that you're happy with what you're doing now.

  I try to avoid homogenizing people into a collective mold, although yes, the majority of voices online pertaining to Jehovah's Witnesses are anti-JW. I may collectively fold into one of these absolutes sometime in the future, but that's just not the case right now."

  FTFY
• 
  18

  Solving Its Generation Doctrine

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  solving its generation doctrine .

  today i added a new article to my blog.

  many have wondered how watchtowers governing body went about making the change it did to its generation doctrine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Generation teaching:

  -1927 = The Anointed[Watchtower February 15, 1927 page 62]
  
  -1942 = Anyone alive to see 1914[Watchtower July 1, 1942 page 204]
  
  -1995 = Wicked People alive today
  [Watchtower November 1, 1995 page 19]
  
  -2008 = The Anointed[Watchtower February 15, 2008 page 24]
  
  -2010 = Overlap Generations of the Anointed since 1914
  [Watchtower April 15, 2010 page 10]

  The 2010 "overlap" is perhaps due to their 2008 backspin to "The Anointed" 1927 teaching. In part, it may have served to help show that it is "new light", and not "old 1927 light" being recycled. I really believe they don't think things through very well, and often have a knee jerk reaction. Some may have complained that "The wicked poeple alive today" felt too indefinite and they needed to limit the time in the members' eyes. So the suggestion of making it "The Anointed" was brought (back) for emphasizing again to the members that the end is 'very near'.

  Then maybe some person or persons (Perhaps in part thanks to the internet), brought out how "The Anointed" is already exposed as "old light" and the concern that many would either see it as such, or couple it with the notion that the 'original' "The Anointed" understanding consisted of the 1914 generation only, in many members minds.

  They needed to clean up the mess and fix it... Or so they thought that is what they were doing with "overlapping generations" as being the new notion.

  In any event, I would like to know the full blown details of much of their messes, which I'm sure most will just take to their grave. It's amazing though, how many just go along with the directive from the Watchtower...Myself included...for over 30 years. I know they vote and the history in general of the powers that be, but relating to 'today' - say the last 20 or so years, how they keep fooling or convincing themselves what the current 'understanding' should be for the organization. It's mind-numbing, hillarious and sadly pathetic, all at the same time.
• 
  30

  A Popular Question Raised by people who were never JW.

  by Momma-Tossed-Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i talk to a lot of people about the watchtower because it comes up in conversation all of the time.. money eventually becomes a topic as it is a very wealthy corporation.. so the question is always raised and it is a good one, "who controls it?".

  people want to know "who has the power of the purse strings?

  " and quite frankly so do i.. there is someone behind the scenes who knows so much that the wtbts could never fire him or her.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  Wrath of Jehu, if you are being honest here:

  "I remember when John Denver was boooed off the stage of the Johnny Carson show..."

  What you have done is convinced yourself or believed something which has never occurred. Not surprised though, as the Watchtower and its supporters and/or members have years of indoctrinating and "stories" that go around being presented as fact or truth.

  The John Denver tale told by Wrath of Jehu is just that:

  http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/ordered.asp

  Bad enough the Watchtower Society has ruined many lives and families by its story-telling or interpretation to say the least. If you're going to tell a tall-tale, try to be a little more original.

  Or perhaps we'll hear a "Smurf" story next.

  And Wrath of Jehu, nice shift of focus from the leadership to the 'common' members. Discussion on how the financial leadership of the Watchtower business turns into a "poor Witnesses are attacked once again". Are there many sincere, genuine people who make of Jehovah's Witneeses? Sure. That can be said for any organization or cult. It doesn't make what they have as being some sort of "truth" or leave the organization they support without reproach or just downright crooked.

  It saddens me to think there are (many) people that are saddened by any organization being questioned.
• 
  18

  Congregations Dissolved For Apostasy, How You Been Through The Witch Hunt?

  by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you know of whole congregations deleted for apostasy, other than the "great purge" of the 1980s?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  trebor

  @Smiddy and anyone else interested in the groups background:

  "In 1948, the Romanian government imposed a ban on Jehovah's Witnesses that lasted until 1989. Many Witnesses were arrested and sent to prison or labor camps, and members of the religion had limited communication with other Witnesses and studied largely from older books and magazines. In 1962, The Watchtower altered its doctrine on the meaning of the phrase "superior authorities" at Romans 13:1, identifying them as human governmental authorities rather than God and Jesus Christ as formerly thought. Many Witnesses in Romania rejected the change, and some suspected it was a communist fabrication intended to make them subservient to the state. After the Romanian ban was lifted, members and representatives of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses were able to meet thousands of long-separated Romanian Witnesses, but some Romanians still rejected certain changes and preferred their autonomy, forming The True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses Association in 1992."

  Thank Wikipedia for the above here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_splinter_groups#Romania

  Another consequence of the many flip-flops of the Watchtower Society, including:

  Superior Authorities (Romans 13:1)...

  -1886 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
  [Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1886 edition) page 250]

  -1916 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
  [Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1916 edition) page 266]

  -1929 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
  [Watchtower June 1 and June 15, 1929]

  -1950 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
  [This Means Everlasting Life (1950) page 197]

  -1962 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
  [Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! (1962) page 548]

  -1990 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
  [Watchtower November 1, 1990, page 11]

  So the "Superior Authorities" were Worldly Governments or Authorities from 1886-1929. From 1929-1962 'new light' flashed forth making the "Superior Authorities" Jehovah and Jesus. Then finally more 'new light' flashing forth brought the teachings of “Super Authorities” to Jehovah's Witnesses from 1962 onward back to the original teaching of 1886....LOL....Gotta love it :P