Posts by HB

18

Just recovering from a 'Mormon Mind Melt' ...

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was in town centre about an hour ago to buy a shirt and tie for an upcoming job interview when i was stopped by a youngish, clean cut american young man (20-ish) in a cheap suit.

my heart sank as i thought it was local jws.

to my slight relief, it was mormons!

HB

My sister and I chatted with two young Mormons on the High Street in Romford, Essex.

One was American with stunning ‘Hollywood A-list’ good looks, age about 28, tall and slim; the other was a quiet red-head from Sweden with a chunky build, maybe aged about 20. The good looking one did most of the talking. I strongly suspected that the Swedish guy had doubts about his faith and was not enjoying missionary service.

A few years ago, I would not have had a clue how to talk with them, (I've never been a JW) but regularly reading debates on this forum has taught me a lot. I still have much to learn and I don’t know the bible like most of you here do, so I steer clear of deep biblical debate, but I enjoyed the challenge of making the Mormons think. My sister is a Humanist like me, and although she has no experience at all of debating religious issues, she is very chatty and sociable.

We talked for about half an hour, it was very friendly. During the conversation, my sister asked the Mormons why they dressed so stuffily in suits, and suggested they would have better success engaging with people if they looked more normal, especially in Romford. She recommended T-shirt and jeans which would be appropriate for their age and the town. The older one said their suits were a symbol to demonstrate their respect for a righteous life style, the younger one just looked embarrassed and uncomfortable as if he’d love to rip his jacket and tie off there and then.

My sister invited them to come out with us later that evening to join a group of our friends in the pub, explaining that although we would be having fun, no one would be unrighteous. The American naturally declined the invitation, but we just knew the Swede would have loved to join us, his eyes gave it away.

We covered several topics but the one I recall best was asking if they had ever personally experienced a prayer being answered. The examples they gave were not impressive, and quite superficial, like a headache being cured, but they assure me others had had miraculous answers to prayer.

I asked them why God would take the time to cure a slightly inconvenient headache but fail to answer prayers for starving people in the developing world. The good looking Mormon said that if God didn’t answer such prayers, it must be his will for these people to starve. My sister asked how they could worship a god who behaved like that. I asked if he would be prepared to tell that to the mother of a baby in arms who was dying of mal-nutrition.

The answer he gave stunned me: He said the baby would be better off dead as it would go to Heaven and therefore bypass all the suffering it would have endured on the earth. I gasped slightly and said derisively, in that case, as an act of kindness, why don’t we just go and kill all the babies and young children in the third world right now to save them the bother of living?

The Swede hung his head and was staring at the floor, looking really uncomfortable, and shifting from foot to foot. The American looked confused and embarrassed, and just said that was not quite what he meant. However I knew the point was made so I didn’t spoil the friendly atmosphere by pushing it further and we thanked them for an interesting chat and moved on.

29

Need clarification from someone who speaks JW: What is an "apostate" ...or... an "apostate website?"

by Faithful Witness in

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/27/jehovahs-witnesses-destroyed-notes-about-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-told.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/27/us-australia-religion-sexcrimes-iduskcn0q10ih20150727.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.

HB

I've never been a JW & never even been inside a Kingdom Hall, but having learnt enough over the years of reading this forum to have successfully debated with a JW elder at my door for 30 mins & have him admit he didn't have answers to my questions, I feel proud to call myself an 'honorary apostate'.

5

let us have some poetry

by Sabin in

jw
friends

there was a little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead and when she was good she was criticized anyway.

(elan golomb, ph.d., trapped in the mirror.

roses are red, violets are blue, i love sex, how about you.

HB

Sing a song o’ sixpence

A pocket full of sighs,

Four and twenty Elders

Telling theocratic lies.

But when the RC was opened

The victims began to sing,

Now wasn’t that a fine witness

Before the judge to bring!

The GB were in their Counting House

Counting all their money,

The Branch were in the dog-house

Not finding it very funny.

The JWs were on Facebook

Claiming evidence is a lie,

When down comes our Angus

And hangs them out to dry!

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

HB

A friend discovered after 25 years of marriage, that her husband had been cheating on her. After a brief separation of six months, once his adulterous affair was over, she told all her family, friends and acquaintances that she "forgave" him and he moved back in. Everyone said how noble she was to forgive.

But just a few of us who know the couple well are aware that In reality she hasn't forgiven him in her heart and feels justified in exacting revenge in hidden and subtle ways. He pays daily for his past actions and his life is now not his own. In public she puts on a pious face of togetherness but in private she gives him hell. He is long-suffering and accepts the way he is treated.

The wife gained much public praise for her 'selfless' forgiveness but in actual fact I know it was not authentic. I believe she did care about him and I'm glad they got back together. But it was also in her interest financially and for other practical reasons to stay married.

I don't like to be cynical particularly about grieving individuals, but I would be very interested to know whether, when they are not in the public limelight, the children who have forgiven the killer of their parents consistently also forgive others in all circumstances.

I hope it is genuine and I'm sure the admiration and commendation they have been given, particularly from Christians for bearing witness to their faith, is a comfort, but seeing the hypocrisy of my friend's insincere forgiveness of her husband has made me question if true and genuine forgiveness particularly at the time of the offence, is humanly possible. (I guess those with Asperger's or autism might outwardly appear to achieve it.)

Christians will say that God gives them the strength to forgive, but to me that's just a delusion.

2

Scientists: Earth Endangered by New Strain of Fact-Resistant Humans (satire)

by HB in

minneapolis (the borowitz report) scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.. the research, conducted by the university of minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.. these humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information, davis logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said.

and yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.. more worryingly, logsdon said, as facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.. while scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain.

the normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified, logsdon said.. while reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future.

HB

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.

59

How the human mind processes facts and faith differently

by EdenOne in

i found this very interesting article by t. m. luhrmann in todays edition of the new york times (i've highlighted a few parts i 've found most interesting):.

it seems weird to deny them.. and yet a broad group of scholars is beginning to demonstrate that religious belief and factual belief are indeed different kinds of mental creatures.

people process evidence differently when they think with a factual mind-set rather than with a religious mind-set.

HB

Interesting article but I am also sceptical of the idea that people are more predisposed to believe in the supernatural as they age.

I agree with Great Teacher that it's more likely that the results of the study were skewed that way due to the effects of the particular cultural 'spirit of the time' and style of education the current older generation experienced.

My experience is mirrored by many -

As a child (non JW) I truly believed in Father Christmas, fairies unquestioningly lived in the pear tree in our garden, Jesus was born in a stable and wanted me to be good, the tooth fairy left money under my pillow in exchange for a tooth, my dolls and teddies came alive whilst I was asleep, and it was real magic when Marvo the Magician pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

In my teens I believed in God in a woolly sort of way, without examining the evidence but as a result of indoctrination from Sunday school.

In my late teens I became "spiritual but not religious". Believed in the existence of ghosts and thought crop circles were probably signs of alien visitations.

In my early twenties I avidly read all the new age stuff, astrology, crystal healing, psychic ability, dousing, meditation, near death experiences, telepathy, Feng shui, bio-rhythms etc.

Mid twenties started reading about science. debunked all of the above and if asked, described myself as a Humanist.

Now in my fifties, am more certain than ever, never once found any evidence for anything supernatural.

However, during my childhood my kindly elderly grandmother, born 1888, who had finished her education at age 14, had many superstitions such as if she accidentally put her cardigan on inside out, it had to stay that way all day as otherwise she would have bad luck, and although not a church goer, she did not question that the bible must be true. No amount of reasoning could convince her that man could have landed on the moon.

The study would need to examine how many older respondents if any had changed their position from sceptic to believer during their later years.

30

JW.Orgy......let's come up with slogans

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

here are a couple suggestions for slogans:.

missionary positions available".. 2.

where jesus isn't the only one coming for a second time".. .. add yours to the list.

HB

ARE YOU AN OLDER MAN LOOKING TO HOOK UP WITH YOUNGER WOMEN?

ARE YOU A COUGAR INTERESTED IN MEETING YOUNGER MEN?

JW.Orgy is the place to go

They'll teach you everything you need to know.

Their explanations are total crap,

but all the generations overlap!

16

For Sale: Magic Sandwich

by Coded Logic in

i am happy to report to everyone on this site that i have discovered a magic sandwichtm that cures cancer.

for a small one-time payment of your entire life of thursday nights, sunday afternoons, and recruitment work on saturday mornings - it can be yours!

for your peace of mind, i have provided answers to some commonly asked questions:.

HB

I had a friend who tried a magic sandwich but when he took a bite he found it to be totally indigestible and he couldn't swallow it.

The bread was stale and the filling was mouldy. In fact it was full of maggots. It didn't cure him of anything, it made him sick!

13

What do Jehovah's Witnesses look like to Non-Cult members

by Watchtower-Free in

.

HB

I have never been a JW or been related to anyone in the religion and have never been in a Kingdom Hall.

Before visiting this site and meeting some ex JWs I didn't know a lot about their beliefs but these are a few of the thoughts that would have previously sprung to mind to describe the impressions I used to have.......

Not quite sure what they believe but the things I did know about were weird.

Their magazines are full of wishful thinking and fantasy pictures. Made my skin creep reading the stuff.

They seemed to be very strict on lifestyle choices

Old fashioned clothes

They must be brainwashed as they didn't seem to have freedom to choose what to believe, they are like clones of each other.

They are wasting their time door knocking, would be so much better to donate all that energy to charity work

Why do they continually come back when I've said "not interested"!

They don't look very happy

Feel sorry for the children who miss out on Christmas and Birthdays which are occasions when other children are made to feel special.

Really hate seeing little children dragged round the houses, it seems like emotional blackmail to make householders pause before saying no thanks.

It must be damaging for a child's emotional development to be brought up in a strict religious home.

I can't see anything immoral about blood transfusions ~ why would their god approve of allowing someone to die for lack of blood when it is available.... it makes no sense.

They seem to be intelligent people, it's beyond me how in this day and age they can believe an ancient book has the truth about life and death when there is clear evidence from history, science and many other disciplines that the bible is wrong in many ways.

I have learnt a lot more about the cult over the last few years and looking back, I was not aware beforehand how dangerous it was or how many people have suffered as a result of it. I just thought of it as rather irrelevant old fashioned sect ~ a few odd bods who were harmless and probably well meaning but deluded.

Now I know differently.

75

CO's visit ends with a bombshell!!!

by nowwhat? in

at the end of his final talk he said of the gb: they are telling the higher ups , "start getting ready we're not going to be around much longer!

" and we expect the angels to release the four winds any day now!

" my first thought was why are you building a corporate country club then?!

HB

My son chatted with some JWs at a literature stand in London last weekend and he asked when the end of the world was coming acording to their religion.

They replied that it would be "very soon" but my son was not content with that and when he asked them to be more specific (e.g. in 1 month, or 1 year, 10 years, or longer?) one of the JWs stated that he was absolutely certain this world would be gone within the next 5 years at the very latest.

My son laughed incredulously and moved on.