lancelink

Joined

• started 88 topics
• posted 608 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by lancelink

• 
  7

  Convention expirience

  by lancelink in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this was sent to me today,.

  .

  file:///c:/documents%20and%20settings/owner/desktop/invitation%20experience.mp3.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  here,I transfered it directly from the message,hope it works, if not I'll get my son the computer wiz to fix it sometime

  this weekend.

  Invitatio...mp3
• 
  7

  Convention expirience

  by lancelink in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this was sent to me today,.

  .

  file:///c:/documents%20and%20settings/owner/desktop/invitation%20experience.mp3.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  This was sent to me today,

  file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Desktop/Invitation%20Experience.mp3
• 
  15

  If you have to give up your dog, please watch this video

  by restrangled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because of the economy, so many people can no longer afford to take care of their pets, or have to move to a location where pets are not allowed.

  with the best of intentions, many famlies think they have found a loving new home.. thanks for watching.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra11c8y5mku.

  r.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  I'm a registered humane investigator, and work mainly with the larger animals such as horses.

  Some of the stories and situations just amaze me, how utterly senseless and having a lack of conscience people can live with.

  This dog video is very very tame compared to the things I have worked with.
• 
  67

  Fake Knock and Other Sneaky Tactics During Field Service

  by sacolton in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yeah, i hated "field circus".

  i don't like bothering people on saturday mornings about the latest watchtower & awake magazines and try to convert them from their religon to become a jehovah's witness.

  so, what i did was just wait until the group passes by and fake knocked.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  Fake street work at 3:00 am

  Good grief man, what was wrong with you ??
• 
  2

  shunning

  by lancelink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this information about shunning today,,, quite interesting .. .

  although the comments made near the bottom have a tinge of anger in them.

  what is shunning?.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  lancelink

  I found this information about shunning today,,, quite interesting .

  Although the comments made near the bottom have a tinge of anger in them

  What is Shunning?

  “Shunning is the act of deliberately avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from an individual or group. It is a sanction against association often associated with religious groups and other tightly-knit organizations and communities. Targets of shunning can include, but are not limited to apostates, whistleblowers, dissidents, people classified as “sinners” or “traitors” and other people who defy or who fail to comply with the standards established by the shunning group(s). Shunning has a long history as a means of organizational influence and control. Extreme forms of shunning and related practices have rendered the general practice controversial in some circles.” (Source Wikipedia)

  What is the Purpose of Shunning?

  The purpose of shunning can be broken down into two primary goals. In some cases one or both of the objectives are sought by religious organizations that encourage and/or require shunning as a practice.

  1. To control or change the behavior of a member of the religion. The objective is to influence or coerce a certain behavior from members to conform to the religion’s standards. The threat of shunning provides negative incentive to avoid certain behavior or actions. Shunning in various religions may include avoidance of a ‘marked’ individual by other members of the religion who are considered in good standing. In some cases it may even include more aggressive and antagonistic behaviors. This approach is generally seen as a punitive and/or corrective action by the religious group and it’s leadership and is often considered as a deterrent of unwanted behaviors. Such is the case for Jehovah’s Witnesses. The threat and fear of being shunned is oftentimes the number one reason that many Jehovah’s Witnesses fear questioning or leaving the religion.
  2. To eliminate or limit the influence of a former member over others in the community. This approach aims to isolate, discredit and dis-empower such an individual. Again we see definite evidence of this with Jehovah’s Witnesses. A former member who has left the religion is to be shunned and may even be considered an apostate if they questioned or disagreed with the organization’s teachings in any way. This creates a climate of prejudice as members of the religion/congregation will view the disassociated member with fear. The act of shunning prevents members from speaking or eating a meal with a disassociated/disfellowshipped member. The explanation from the Jehovah’s Witness leadership is that these persons are spiritually weak, influenced by Satan and a danger to the health of the congregation.

  Results of Shunning

  Shunning is generally accepted and approved by members of the religion but rarely by the individual who is being shunned. Persons who are the subject of shunning have in many cases suffered damaged psychological and relational health. In some cases individuals have become advocates for anti-shunning policy and have sought to bring to light the detrimental effects of these actions through legal means. Some advocates operate support organizations to help shunning victims to recover from damaging effects and may also seek to attach the religious organizations who enforce and practice shunning.

  Shunning has acquired the connotation of abuse and relational aggression. This is because of the extreme damage which can be caused by its interference or destruction of normal relationships between family members and friends. Shunning can cause extreme emotional pain to the subject of the shunning. This kind of pain, particularly when it is viewed to be unjustly inflicted can have additional psychological effects including low self esteem and self worth, poor self-confidence, issues with trust and even in some cases can cause other types of trauma or impair psychological function.

  Often, shunning involves the implicit or explicit shame for the member who is accused of committing acts deemed to be wrong by the religious group or its leadership. This shame may not necessarily be psychologically damaging if the membership to the religion was voluntary. However, if the rules are arbitrary and religious membership deemed essential for personal safety, health, security, or general well being, such shame can be highly destructive.

  One of the primary negative effects of shunning relate to the effect shunning has on the subject’s personal relationships; especially family relationships. In many cases the practice of shunning can destroy marriages, break up families and separate children from their parents. Shunning can be dramatic and devastating as it can destroy the shunned persons closest relationships.

  Shunning, when used by religious/congregation members and one member-parent against another non-member-parent or their children, it contains elements of what psychologists call parental alienation. Extreme shunning may cause traumas to the shunned (and to their dependents) similar to what is studied in the psychology of torture.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses and Shunning

  Jehovah’s Witnesses enforce shunning for all persons who have been disfellowshipped or excommunicated. A member can be disfellowshipped and shunned for questioning the teachings of the religion, for disagreeing with doctrine or Watchtower teachings as well as for engaging in activity deemed wrongful or displaying behavior that does not conform to the rules of the religion.

  Persons who question or disagree with teachings do not have to promote their views publicly but rather if questioned by the “Elders” of the congregation and found to privately disagree with current teachings found in the Watchtower literature, such an individual would likely be disfellowshipped as an “Apostate”. This can be regarded as a form of “thought control” which is exercised over the members.

  Once disfellowshipped, members of the congregation are not allowed to associate or speak with the disfellowshipped person. The consequences are that the person(s) may be disfellowshipped and shunned themselves. The only exception to the shunning rule is for a disfellowshipped family member—such as a spouse or minor child—who is still residing in the family home. However, a child who is over the age of majority will be required to leave the family residence if they are disfellowshipped for any reason.

  Individuals who are not disfellowshipped but who voluntarily resign from the religion are also shunned by members. Members are instructed by the leadership to treat these individuals in the same manner as if they were disfellowshipped. This has resulted in broken marriages and families, child custody battles, children being shunned by their parents, siblings and other family members. This raises the issue that children who are raised in the religion have no means to leave should they desire to. Membership to the religion is not voluntary for children and they suffer extreme relational and emotional trauma if they wish to leave.

  The stated purpose of shunning by Jehovah’s Witnesses is to (1) keep the congregation free from bad influence and (2) as a punitive means to shame or isolate a person so that they repent and return to the congregation.

  · The Watchtower, especially, violates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on at least 20 counts.

  Article 1.
  “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.”

  At an early age, children of Jehovah’s Witnesses are deprived of reason. They are brainwashed with the esoteric teachings of the Watchtower. In adult life, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t share in the universal “spirit of brotherhood”. They are “no part of the world.”

  Article 2.
  “Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.”

  In the exercise of religion, the Watchtower violates Article 30 of the declaration, that is, it tramples on the inherent rights of its members.

  Article 3.
  “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.”

  The Watchtower deprives its members the “right to life, liberty and security of person.” It sees to it that members don’t get blood transfusion. It doesn’t have the well-being of members foremost in mind.

  Article 4.
  “No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses are practically slaves in the name of religion.

  Article 5.
  “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

  The Watchtower controls every aspect of life of Jehovah’s Witnesses, even prohibiting masturbation. They are made into robots.

  Article 6.
  “Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.”

  The Watchtower withholds the full development of Jehovah’s Witnesses as human beings. It prohibits competition of any kind in arts, music, sports, science, etc.

  Article 10.
  “Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.”

  All congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses have kangaroo courts they call “Judicial Committees”. They are partial and not public.

  Article 12.
  “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”

  Within the congregation, a Jehovah’s Witness is subject to “arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence” and to “attacks upon his honour and reputation”. Even personal matters as lovelife and employment are put under humiliating scrutiny.

  Article 16.
  (1) “Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses are prohibited to marry “worldly persons”. That being the case, many female members become old maids.

  (3) “The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.”

  Because of shunning, many Jehovah’s Witnesses lost families and relatives.

  Article 18.
  “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

  The Watchtower deprives Jehovah’s Witnesses the right to change his or her religion without dire personal and familial consequences.

  Article 19.
  “Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

  “Freedom of opinion and expression” is not tolerated among Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is discouraged in bible studies. They are obligated to only consider what the Watchtower has to say on various matters.

  Article 20.
  (2) “No one may be compelled to belong to an association.”

  Born in Jehovah’s Witnesses are compelled to join the group at an early age.

  Article 21.
  (1) “Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot join politics.

  (3) “The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses do not vote.

  Article 23.
  (1) “Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot join politics, the police or military and the United Nations as a means of livelihood.

  Article 24.
  “Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.”

  Sunday for a Jehovah’s Witness is like a working day. Two hours of congregation meeting in the morning and another two hours of evangelizing in the afternoon or vice versa.

  Article 25.
  (1) “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.”

  The Watchtower deprives its members economic development. It coerces members to get into full-time evangelizing without compensation. Jehovah’s Witnesses are always reminded to “keep their eyes simple.”

  (2) “Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.”

  The Watchtower employs child labor by ordaining baptized children to perform evangelism.

  Article 26.
  (1) “Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.”
  (2) “Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.”

  The Watchtower discourages education and academic excellence. No “full development of the human personality” among Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  (3) “Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses bastardize this right by homeschooling their chilren, especially, in the US.

  Article 27.
  (1) “Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.”
  (2) “Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.”

  The Watchtower doesn’t believe in the personal rights of its members. It shuns classical music, arts and culture or any endeavor extolling the person.

  Article 28.
  “Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.”

  The Watchtower doesn’t believe in the capacity of the world to govern itself and maintain peace and order. Instead, it advocates the theocratic “new system of things” as the only hope for humanity.

  Article 29.
  (1) “Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.”

  The Watchtower doesn’t engage in any humanitarian work outside of its members.

  (3) “These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.”

  The Watchtower believes that the United Nations is the “wild beast” in the Apocalypse.

  Article 30.
  “Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.”

  The Watchtower teachings are detrimental to the “rights and freedoms” of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They destroy childhood dreams and lay waste the prime of youth of so many hapless victims.

  http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2009/04/religion-shunning-why-is-it-so-damaging
• 
  67

  Fake Knock and Other Sneaky Tactics During Field Service

  by sacolton in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yeah, i hated "field circus".

  i don't like bothering people on saturday mornings about the latest watchtower & awake magazines and try to convert them from their religon to become a jehovah's witness.

  so, what i did was just wait until the group passes by and fake knocked.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  I was out once with an uber- rightous pioneer once.

  We knocked at a door and nobody answered, but we could hear someone walking around inside.

  This guy walked around the house, knocked on a side window and said "we know that your home, we have an important message

  to share with you"

  That was one of the first times I started to doubt this religion and the mental state of some of its members.
• 
  15

  Something that can be said to JW's at the door

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine this conversation.. witness: so would you enjoy reading this book which explains the bible based hope for everlasting life on a paradise earth?.

  householder: yes, i would love to read that.

  it sounds fascinating.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  very insightful, and thought provoking,
• 
  9

  Reaching Out

  by lancelink in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  did any of you guys ever try to "spiritually advance" by really making an effort in reaching out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

  only to be overlooked while some other brother who was honestly just a brown-noser or genuine hypocrite gets appointed.

  without hardly any effort on his part?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  Did any of you guys ever try to "spiritually advance" by really making an effort in reaching out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  only to be overlooked while some other brother who was honestly just a brown-noser or genuine hypocrite gets appointed

  without hardly any effort on his part?

  Back in the early 90's I was honestly trying my best to become a ms, and yet everytime the co came by I would approach the elders and always get some aspect of my spiritual life that was "off".

  It doesn't matter that I was

  1) happily married with well-adjusted children.

  2) give talks several times each month at the TMS

  3) have a book study at my home.

  4), Was out in service EVERY SATURDAY.

  5) help at the quick builds whenever i was asked.

  6) run the microphones, and set up EVERY WEEK for the tms and sm.

  7) mow the KH grass.

  8) was involved in a DA part.

  9) opened different meetings with a prayer several times a month.

  (I don't mean to sound self rightous here, but I was honestly doing my best to "help jehovahs organization".)

  By the next visit I would have improved, and then they would pull some other area out and use it.

  EX #1: OK, the problem here is that you need to improve your RV's, and answering at the sunday meetings.

  EX#2: CO just left / Well, you need to work on your answers at the BS, and taking more of the lead in cleaning the hall.

  3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, was always something new.

  And then,, brother BN, or my favorite, a new brother who was a good friend or related to 1-2 elders would move in and

  bingo!! he would be appointed the very next time the Co came by. No wonderfullly upbuilding past record,

  And watching I noticed a pattern start to develop:

  after a year or two bro. wonderful:(R. towns) left his wife and young family for a co-worker. One's wife (picarelli) died under mysterious circumstances.

  The other was in business with the PO, (renfrow)and he was known as the cong. pervert for several years. The last time I spoke to a member of this cong. nobody respects him, and most of the young people (over 15) have been df'ed, left, are thinking of leaving, or just go to make their parents happy and will leave at the first chance.

  So are there any other stories, or am I just a typically bitter old man, upset that I wasted the best years of my life trying to help the borg.
• 
  64

  What Were Some Stupid Rules In Your Hall?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  families with younger children had to sit in the last 3 rows or they were counseled!.

  disfellowshipped persons were told not to sit next to each other and talk because it "looks like they're unrepentant"..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  "I was counceled once because I left the stage after my talk before the following brother made it to the platform. The elder told me it was not appropriate to leave the platform vacant."

  This makes sense,

  one time in my old hall the stage was vacant during the opening song and a mentally-deranged study walked up and asked everyone to please sit down.

  man was that a surreal situation !
• 
  29

  Read My Dads Crazy Email Trying to Make me Panic bout Armageddon!!

  by foolsparadise in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom emailed me and asked if they could come to town and go to our district convention with us.

  i politley said no thank you we wont be attending.

  we havent been to meeting in a long long time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  lancelink

  I have realized that older people who have been JW's for years now really need something / anything to maintain their spirituality.

  Just like a drowning person will grab anything within their reach, it sounds like your dad is grabbing anything that sounds realistic

  to him.

  My dad is a little like this,(my Mom recently died, and the spouting off of JW ism's can get overbearing at times.)

  so I just bite my tongue and let him believe what he wants.

  Taking away the only hope he has could be devastating to them !