Posts by Awakened07

84

Are Your Morals The Same As When You Were A Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i guess that i can say, from a biblical viewpoint, anyone that practices "fornication", having sex without being married, would be "immoral".

other than, i don't lie or cheat or steal or even kill anyone else!

do you view yourself a "moral" or "immoral" person and why?

Awakened07

I think a 'moral' person is one who lives by a set of standards that do not hurt anyone else directly or indirectly(if possible), does not judge others by his own standards and generally does good to others.

Sexual morality as we've learned it through the Bible was established to create order among the people and to avoid deceases and unwanted pregnancies, I'd guess. But I don't know that I would call someone immoral for having sex, unless it hurt someone directly or indirectly.

As for me, my life is pretty much the same as it was when I was active, so in that sense I'd say I'm just as moral. Other than that I mirror what nvrgnbk said.

51

Could the WTBTS get JWs to kill?

by serotonin_wraith in

i'm not saying those in power would even contemplate doing this, but i wonder just how far jws would go to obey their leaders.

would they go as far as to kill, if they thought god had given that message to 'his people'?.

it would probably take years of subtle changes in their message so that it didn't come as a big shock.

Awakened07

I don't actually think this would work, at least not on a large scale. But they could probably push them pretty far if they wanted.

Something else I thought about a while ago though, was how the GB perhaps would try to make prophecy come true by provoking it. I thought of that when the "End of all false religion" tract was released. I thought "OK - so now they're trying to piss people off in order to create the final persecution/attack of Jehovah's people?" Nothing happened though, but I guess that's 'cause it's not exactly anything new from them, so I guess they've lost their provocative power.

14

what is WT Circular Reasoning/logic?

by Smoky in

im kind of a dope sometimes, but can someone give me some examples of this?

i have read postings by many about this, and i would like to be learn to identify them in the wt literature.. thank you.

smoky.

Awakened07

[person nr. 1]: "The Bible is true because God says so in the Bible."

[person nr. 2]: "-But at SOME point you have to have SOME piece of evidence, otherwise you're only believing the word of someone who lived thousands of years ago?"

[person nr. 1]: "Of course. The Bible contains prophecies that had a 100% success rate."

[person nr. 2]: "OK - that's good news. Are they verifiable through other sources than the Bible?"

[person nr. 1]: "Yes - we have archeology that shows that some of the kings and other persons of the Bible lived pretty much around the time that the Bible says."

[person nr. 2]: "OK, but can you prove that the biblical books were written before the events in the prophecies took place, and not after?"

[person nr. 1]: "Yes, if we follow the chronology in the Bible, we see that they..."

[person nr. 2]: "...Hang on - aren't you about to use the Bible in order to prove the Bible right??"

[person nr. 1]: "Well - as I said, archeology does show us that the Bible is historically correct on several occasions."

[person nr. 2]: "Yes, but are there any outside sources that confirm that those prophecies were written before the events took place? Are there tablets or scrolls found dating to before the events took place?"

[person nr. 1]: "Erhm... No."

[person nr. 2]: "Well, then how can I be sure these things weren't written down after the fact?"

[person nr. 1]: "You have to have faith in the word of God at some point."

[person nr. 2]: "OK, but why should I?"

[person nr. 1]: "Because the Bible says so, and the Bible is the word of God."

(OK - a little cheesy and not exhaustive in its explanation, but you get the point)

11

Spiritual boat(another J-Dub E-mail)

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

just got this one last week.. what kind of spiritual boat am i?.

> > a barge -.

> > always has to be pushed or shoved?

Awakened07

My boat sank, but was salvaged. Now it's in the dock for repair and improvements.

39

Prayer a Waste of Time?

by WTWizard in

how often do you hear about prayer at the meeting that, if you should pray that if jehovah wills that he should do something?

to me, this is a total waste of time to pray if that condition applies.

you see, if jehovah willed something, why would he need to wait for you to ask him for it?

Awakened07

Actually, in biblical times, you could bargain with Jehovah. He had a plan of destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, but hey - Abraham thought "Perhaps we ought to check if there are any righteous people in there first?" - And God said "Oh - you have a point there. I'll go check, and if there are only ten or so I won't do anything. But I'll have to check first. 'Cause I don't know yet. 'Cause I haven't checked. I know I'm almighty and all, but I have to actively go over there and check first. So I'll get back to you. - - - Well, sorry - no righteous people there. Get Lot out of there before I fry the place."

Not sure if that works anymore though. Abraham was after all a biblical figure, and they were all super humans compared to us, since they're mentioned in the Bible. They weren't just your ordinary Joes. Pretty sure Abraham never had to go to the bathroom. So it probably doesn't work that way with us poor b*stards living in modern times. We are after all not biblical figures.

Sorry - I'm in a weird mood....

25

Is Active Disbelief a New Development?

by metatron in

jw
friends

in decades past, i can't ever recall anyone who 'left the truth' , who openly believed it was false.. i knew lots of people who drifted away but none who actively proclaimed that what the organization.

taught was false.

usually, you would bump into them and they would say , "i know its the truth but.

Awakened07

I was thinking of making a similar topic; "Reason for leaving: emotions or logic?", where I was thinking of asking if those who are disfellowshipped for for example having sex out of marriage are more likely to return, than those who leave because they have come to the conclusion that either the Bible and/or the WBTS is wrong/false? Well - I guess the answer seems pretty obvious, but... I was thinking that perhaps those who were DF'ed because of "sex, drugs and/or rock'n roll" after a while also studied and would come to the same conclusion as those who DA'ed themselves?

-I think perhaps more and more people leave not because they fell in love with the wrong person, or because they started to gamble or drink and couldn't stop, but because they've thought things through and come to the conclusion that something's not right. And so they don't go back either, which is a bigger problem for the WBTS. They could stand a few disfellowshipped as long as they could bully or guilt them into returning, but what when they simply don't believe any of it anymore and never return? And more and more are of that variety?

43

Fox News on UFO Disclosure

by Legolas in

jw
friends

i can't seem to embed the page so here is the link to youtube.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udooz_ipb6y.

"disclosure is at hand.

it is very close.

Awakened07

Well - I can't categorically deny [because of my current scientific beliefs] the possibility of extra-terrestrial life forms that may have been around far longer than us, and therefore have created technology advanced enough to come here and visit us.

However - as I have always been fascinated by science-fiction, I have also kept an eye on the UFO movement. And it's pretty much like any religion; you have those that are very pragmatic and even skeptic but believe the possibility of ETs, then you have those who have been abducted and believe because of that, then you have those who have visions and talk to these extra-terrestrials and "fly" around in space in an out of body experience, then you have those who believe earth is governed by a reptilian race (George Bush is actually a reptilian for instance) and people from the Pleiads are here to help us..... and so on and so forth. And of course people in-between.

What's interesting is that they also have prophets, and they also believe in the end of days, only what's gonna happen is that mankind will be enlightened about the existence of extra-terrestrials at that point, not killed.

When I looked even closer though, I found out that at least one of these groups actually consist of ex-Mormons, who now believe that Jesus (Jeshua) will come back as an alien(!) - that is to say he was always an alien. And then suddenly the fact that they propagate end time prophecies "make sense" at least to me.

Anyway - who knows? Thankfully, like JWs, their beliefs has an 'expiration date': all this is supposed to happen before December 21st. 2012. That seems to be the general consensus. So if nothing has happened then, I guess we'll have to start leading those boring lives again, until the next great fad comes along...

Oh - I erroneously said JWs had an expiration date - they don't as we know, because they keep getting new light and thereby changes the stamp date, kinda like Apu changes the date on the milk cartons in The Simpsons.

11

Healing touch - the line between good & bad

by cstherapist in

jw
friends

hello everyone, i am a norwegian therapist using various treatment modalities in my work.

i have heard that jw's are against the use of touch in therapy, and i am wondering if this statement is correct?

or does it only apply to bodywork where the therapist has a "spiritual intention", for example by asking silently for answers to specific questions?

Awakened07

They don't believe that God works miracles through anyone today, not even in their own congregation, so anything that is - or seems to be - spiritual healing, must be from Satan and his demons. However, if you could show that this is a purely physical practice that can be verified scientifically, then I guess at least some JWs would allow it, but they would probably still be very cautious, as they are very 'superstitious' as has been mentioned. Pretty much anything that is not from the organization is from Satan in some way or another according to them, even if it is something that helps people, because "Satan makes himself into an angel of light" to deceive us. Or so they would say. I guess the fear of touch from a sexual point of view is also there, as was mentioned above, but I think the fear of evil spirits is bigger.

2

"Follow the Christ"Con Recaps?

by Badger in

the only conventions i want to go to are gaming ones, but i am curious about this years' .

plus, the ex is about to go, and i'd like to blow her mind but telling her that "i know" what went on.. and yes, i know that you're doing all the work and i only post about once a month now like a slack-ass.

i really do appreciate it, though..

Awakened07

I don't have a recap, but since no one has replied yet, I can tell you that at least the entire drama (you know - the play they put up) can be found on YouTube. Just search for 'follow the christ'. You can find some videos of people singing and some of 'apostates' doing their thing as well.

139

IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...

by Terry in

thinking out loud.... .

justice.. topics that need discussing.

justice is getting what you deserve.

Awakened07

First I'd like to thank Terry for his replies, although a bit harsh at times, they are pretty much what I would have answered. A few years ago, I would have agreed with the "spiritual crowd", however.

As for this:

Missing link. There were other humans or hominids already here on earth when God placed Adam in the garden of Eden (also a metaphor). Adam was different in that he was more spiritual with a soul (God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man came to be a living soul). He was created in the likeness of his Father. There was none found among all that God created suitable as a mate for Adam. God provided a woman in the image of Adam for a help mate.
Eve partook of something forbidden and contaminated the pure blood and Adam followed suit. Based on God's just recompense law, he would have covered their mouths rather than their genitals had the "sin" been just disobeying a command not to eat of a certain fruit tree.
She introduced into the DNA --- the blood line --- the gene pool --- however you want to say it, a contamination that introduced death like the animals and hominids.
This is just another hypothesis that makes SOME sense. The "death gene" is in the BLOOD because of going outside God's mandate to procreate with one's own kind.

So basically what you're saying is Eve's sin was to have sex with other hominids? Did she then go to Adam and say "Hey, Adam - you won't believe how great it is to have sex with those man-animals - they may be stupid, but woooah! You should really try it.". And so Adam had sex with them too? 'Cause that's where the story would go, isn't it, based on the 'metaphor' of the forbidden fruit, which Eve ate first, then gave to Adam?

In that case, why the forbidden fruit metaphor at all?

Was it because people of that time (when Genesis was written) wouldn't be able to handle the X-rated material? And yet, the Bible has no problem telling the story of God's sons looking upon the daughters of mankind and lusting for them, and coming down to have sex with them (must have had sex since it resulted in offspring). So if the Bible can have that story just a few paragraphs later - why couldn't there have been a verse in Genesis 3, saying something like this: "And there were other, humanlike animals in those days, that God had created. And Eve looked upon them, and lo, they were much more masculine and muscular than Adam, and she felt a longing in her nether regions. And so it came to be that she came to know one of them. And she later said unto Adam - you should find one of their females to get to know as well." Why make up a story about a tree with fruit?

(If I sound snotty and arrogant in this reply, that's not my intention - I know it can seem that way; I just want it answered)