This is just my personal opinion, but from some bible scholars on the internet I came to agree that the 144,000 and the great crowd are the same. The 144,000 is the symbolic number for the great crowd. The number representing completeness. There are 12 thrones and 12 apostles. It seems to me that Jesus was talking to the apostles and telling them they would sit on the thrones. How would 144,000 people sit on 12 thrones. The great crowd ( or the 144,000 ) would be the ones that the apostles would judge. The trouble with the society is that they think no one else can have an opinion. They obviously have not a clue about any of this. My point is that other peoples opionion at least make more sense than theirs. The society has many ideas that are completely the exact opposite of each other. They have always made one thing mean another, and an already fulfilled prophecy mean another without any basis for it.
Posts by logic
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82HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......
by Mary injust when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .
we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?
there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.
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New Light - July 15, 2008 SE of the WT - Sower and Seed - another angle
by independent_tre ini've seen the topic where they try to explain invisible growth, but something else about this wt magazine stands out.
if this isn't adulterating the word of god, i don't know what is.
the wts has done it again and managed to usurp jesus' position and interject themselves into his place.
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logic
The society is just trying to prove a point. You can tell the true followers anything and they will believe it. They will probably do what russell did and declare you do not need the bible just his interpretation of it. It seems as the society is saying the bible is becoming obsolete and the they are now making all the rules. The society encourages you to read the bible but they do not encourage you to study it, in fact they discourage it. They want you to read the literature first .and the bible second.
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Can somebody explain the time sheet process
by tryingtounderstandjws inis it an actual form that you fill out and submit to the main office?
do you break down the hours and what you did?
did anyone find it fun or help encourage them to do more, or was more time just spent getting creative with it?
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logic
I was in the organization long enough to remember when they kept your stats on a large board for all to see. I forget exactly how it worked, but it was meant to encourage (embarass you) to do more.They must have finally realized the complete stupidity of it all. They should just drop the whole thing anyway as it is complete nonsense. Between the new methods, jws lying on the slips, then those in charge cheating, plus the society probably cheats , the whole thing proves nothing. If they actually changed it to the actual hours they talked to someone it would make alot more sense. That way it would show less hours to gain more converts. The way the society does it , it shows an enormous amount of time to gain the same amount of converts. Of course I don't think they have figured that out.
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ewatchman
by logic inhas anyone been to e-watchman-exposed.com site.
i was reading some of the post and i get so frustrated with their illogical reasoning that i have to stop and come back to it later.
and of course no one is allowed on that doesn't agree with them.
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logic
I just typed ewatchman exposed into google search , it comes up as no. one.
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ewatchman
by logic inhas anyone been to e-watchman-exposed.com site.
i was reading some of the post and i get so frustrated with their illogical reasoning that i have to stop and come back to it later.
and of course no one is allowed on that doesn't agree with them.
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logic
Has anyone been to e-watchman-exposed.com site. I was reading some of the post and I get so frustrated with their illogical reasoning that I have to stop and come back to it later. And of course no one is allowed on that doesn't agree with them. They sound like a bunch of bratty kids with their own club. I've heard some of you say that something makes you want to gag, now I truly know what you mean.
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Tommorow I'm throwing away my theocrapic library...I'm leaving my wife.
by Witness 007 inyes i need to move on so the yearbooks the bibles the bound volumes are going in the trash.
this is not an add so don't ask me to send something to you.
i'm too tired and stressed out.
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logic
If you destroy the crap you are doing the society a favor. They are glad to see most of their old crap destroyed. It is best to let some one who is good at picking it apart for the benefit of the upcoming suckers have it. Thank goodness all the real old crap was not destroyed. Crooks and liars do not like a paper trail. I am suprised the society does not make their literature self destructive after two years. But on the other hand , I myself do thow some of it away just to get that feeling, it is hard to resist.
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Please help my computer crashed...lost all of my PDF's that I got from here
by middleman inhey guys it's been a few months since i posted because my other computer died on me.
to make a long story short, i did over 8 months (literally hours and days/months) of research in which i had over 4 gb of jw material downloaded (scans, pdf's pictures etc).
i lost it all grrrr!!!.
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logic
Always save to a cd or dvd. I use ahead nero, works great. When you go to 'file' then 'save as' chose your cd or dvd as the target to save in. The program tells you how to set up for this. Computer repair is my wifes buisness. She has a lot of tricks for getting the info from the hd. The freezing thing does work some of the time. Try to unplug your hd completely and replug it, this works a lot of the time. The other ways cost a lot of money. If your computer comes on but goes only as far as to tell you that it can not find the operating system, then it may very well be your hard drive. If it does not come on at all it may be a power problem (connections, power supply, etc.) You would be amazed at how many people call for repair when they dont have the power cord plugged in, or the breaker is off, or thier cord or power strip is bad. Always start at the source and work you way up. It is like when your car does not start you check for gas if the engine turns over or the battery if it does not.
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Banks
by logic ina congregation in this area has received a message from the society to take their money out of washinton mutual asap.
this is interesting because a couple of economist i read on the internet have said they expect wamu to go under in the next few days.
they have been in trouble for quite sometime.
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logic
I just heard this rumor from my wife. A congregation in this area has received a message from the society to take their money out of washinton mutual asap. This is interesting because a couple of economist I read on the internet have said they expect wamu to go under in the next few days. They have been in trouble for quite sometime. I told my wife to get our money out quite some time ago, because the banks weren't looking to good to me. The government always tries to paint a rosie picture of the economy, but for the past year they have been way off base. A couple of weeks before indymac went under the ceo said the bank was making a turnaround. he just didn't say it was over a cliff.
There are rumors and there are rumors, but sometimes we have to be alert when it comes to our finances. There is the FDIC assurance, but if too many banks go under at the same time it could be a problem even the government can't take care of, not to mention they could tie up your money for a time. Hopefully things will straighten out, but the economy just doesn't look too good right now.
Has anyone else heard anything of this sort.
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JW E-MAIL... MUST READ. THE END, PROOF.
by whereami inindependent research by the r&f.
the boys in the writing committee need to hire this person.. .
this is alot to read, but so amazing to see all of the events listed that happened all in this year.
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logic
The people who lived through the 'dark ages' would consider this paradise.
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1977 Our Incoming World Government-God's Kingdom--PDF!
by Atlantis in1977 our incoming world government--god's kingdom--pdf!
bookmarked searchable reduced from 58-mb to 26-mb what does the front cover of this book look like?
click here: http://imgurl.filetac.com/img/60514290.jpg credit goes to jwfacts).
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logic
When we studied the daniel book I also used the perpetual calendar to check all the dates around that time of 1918, and the conventions and other things they claimed to see if any of the dates matched up. Absolutely nothing matched. You are right, who ever writes this stuff never checks it out. They even tried changing it around a little later on and still did not get it right. They also try to use the 360 day to get their days from the bible but then they count the days with our modern calendar which has been proven to be off as much as years. The whole thing was dreamed up by rutherford . He just figured that the jws believed every thing else, why not this . He probably figured no one would check it out.
I told my wife that any religion could say the same thing. Just have some conventions, write books, phamplets, etc. so that they would match certain dates and then claim that it fullfilled the days in the bible. That is exactly what rutherford did. The problem is rutherford must not have been able to count.
If the idiots at bethel would reserch this crap, they would probably just quit putting it in the literature, other wise they have to be doing it knowing it is wrong.