I think you are an alarmist , paranoid, and a shit storm fearmonger - unnecessarily so.
I MEAN IT
flipper
JoinedPosts by flipper
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90
ATT: WARNING
by EJ257 inplease be aware of everything that is happening around the world at this moment in time.
this goes to anyone, ex-communicated, removed, serving, believer and non.
at this point in my observations i have realized many religions/ideologies know there is some sort "end of time" or a transition into a new order of living in this earth.
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10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)
by flipper in10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.
walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .
some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.
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flipper
DING- Yeah good point. I never viewed carrying the microphones as a " privilege ". LOL. It was more of an inconvenience to me because you'd have to stand on your feet for an hour or so running up and down the aisle to let people comment. Very tiring at times- especially if you worked 8 hours a day at a real job .
TORNINTWO- I'm really glad to hear that you and your daughter stopped attending meetings. And it's good that your JW husband is not hassling you over it. You are setting a great example for your daughter in having freedom of mind and helping her towards her college education. Keep the great work up.
BLUES BROTHER- I agree with your views as well. I saw through the veneer and illusions of an imaginary " time of the end " as the WT Society struggled to try and stretch the " generation won't pass away " theory into " these overlapping generations won't pass away " theory. Then I knew it all was just BS designed to control 8 million JW's on this planet. This board has been a great support to me as you stated it has to you as well. Thanks for your comments
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Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive
by flipper inso i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .
i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.
and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.
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flipper
SIMON- I like your comparison to a company going through problems- and we definitely know with the construction cutbacks and layoffs the WT Society is experiencing hardships now. I think as you stated this will affect the morale of the field ministry recruiting process when JW's see that the WT Society is cutting back and consolidating tons of JW's crammed into kingdom halls - and then - to bring new recruits into crammed up kingdom halls ? Mixed messages might start sinking in to some of these J-dubs.
ON THE WAY OUT- Yeah, I'm sure the WT Society will count as many children as they can to pump the numbers up. Hell- They'd count animals, circus carnies , and pull midgets out of the closet just to inflate numbers.
FINKELSTEIN- You know- you make a really good point. To make young 10 year old children feel responsible to turn time in on a report sheet each month is absolutely ridiculous. Ridiculous to make anybody do it really. The control in this JW cult is astonishing.
VIDIOT- Slow death by attrition. I'm glad that there seems to be a lot of " conscious classers " inside the JW's who have stopped donating. If some of these someday actually decide to totally leave the cult- JW's numbers would go way down.
PHIZZY- Yeah, I agree with your point- I do think the vast majority of those who exit the organization stay away for good. I once had an elder tell me that only one out of 3 disfellowshipped people return and get reinstated , or about 33 % . But that was in the 1990's he told me this- before all the scandals got exposed. So indeed your 75 % number is pretty close I believe.
THEWALKER- Good point you make that about the only new recruits many times are rank & file JW's kids being baptized. And also for sure lackluster meeting attendance is a good indicator that things are going downhill for the WT Society. Even the JW's are apathetic about their own beliefs. It's because the WT leaders are like the boy who cried wolf too many times about the alleged " time of the end " coming and it might very well be that inside the minds of some JW's - they just don't believe in the hope anymore.
STEVE 2- Yes so it seems that meeting attendance is lackluster in many areas in the world for sure.
DESIROUS of CHANGE- Good point - there are a lot of " zombie body's "sitting in these kingdom halls right now who are not donating because deep down they don't believe in what the WT Society is doing. It may eventually catch up to the WT leaders financial pockets.
88JM- Good point- analyzing the global trend of increases and decreases may give a better view of the entire situation as to what's happening in advanced countries as opposed to developing countries .
BLONDIE- I was a teenager in the pre 1975 days that you mention and I remember kingdom halls crammed to the limit for memorials numbering 250 to 300 at memorials as well. Everybody was trying to save their own ass at what they thought was " Armageddon " coming allegedly in 1975. Well, 40 years later here in 2015- WT is seeing decreases in attendances at even the memorial. It's amazing what unfulfilled prophecies do to people's expectations isn't it ? Hopefully more will wake up and smell the coffee
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Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive
by flipper inso i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .
i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.
and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.
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flipper
O.K. now for page 2 responses. Thanks again for your replies.
LISA ROSE- Thanks for supplying the graph from JW Facts. I find it pretty interesting that the rate of JW's exiting increased from 1996 to 2005 as compared with 1986 to 1995. I believe the generation changes in WT doctrine had a big effect on many in that time period leaving. I hope it continues. Thanks for your research !
RATTIGAN 350 - Thanks for clearing up how publishers are counted as opposed to baptisms counts. I never paid attention when I was a JW as I was never an elder. LOL.
THE GIRL NEXT DOOR- Good point you make about the " peak publisher " thing. It draws out all the irregular publishers to come out of their holes and report field service time occasionally- so that presents another variable.
STEVE 2- You bring up another good question, " What percentage of active publishers are not yet baptized ? " Good point. Like I mentioned to another poster there are so many variables to consider it's impossible perhaps to get the figures accurate. But I agree I like Lisa Roses information - that's really helpful. Good point about jw.org being a babysitter for JW's who don't attend meetings.
ONEEYEDJOE- Your point that the number of baptisms lag behind the newer unbaptized publishers is a good point. Most publishers eventually become baptized JW's. Interesting point you make about the WT Society artificially inflating the numbers. Thanks for sharing.
Have to go finish cooking a Thanksgiving breakfast this morning- will be back later to respond to the rest of pg. 2 comments ! Thanks again
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Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive
by flipper inso i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .
i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.
and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.
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flipper
I'm finally off of work for a couple days in order to continue to respond individually here. where I left off ! Thanks for all your thoughts on this subject !
LOSTNOTFOUND- I agree with you- I believe we may see a gradual downturn in the numbers each year but the WT Society isn't going away anytime soon. I don't see any mass exodus coming either. The further they get past 1914 it may affect their numbers gradually as time goes on- but nothing sharply drastic.
THE OLD HIPPIE- I agree with you as well that there are so many variables to consider in counting these numbers that it's impossible to nail it accurately. As you say JW's come and go, some become inactive then they re-activate. They get DFed, then return or leave again. But considering the numbers kind of gives a pulse on what is happening in general - not just precise.
JOOKBEARD- Good point. There is a huge crossover in that unbaptized publishers just get counted again as usually , eventually these unbaptized publishers DO get baptized - so who knows how much overlap there is in counting. Valid point.
LISTENER- Yeah, I thought the 40,000 number for the exiting in 2014 was very odd as well, considering it was over 200,000 for 2015. Interesting.
MEPHIS- I agree with you the 1914 teaching is like a millstone around the WT leaders neck. It will bite them but good in time. And since 2 out of 3 JW kids eventually leave the cult- they do have to have 3 kids just to keep 1 kid inside the JW religion. In more advanced countries the increases have really stagnated and hopefully due to Internet access the growth will slow in developing countries as well.
PHIZZY- You make some good points. With the terrorist attacks in France and threats of war- whenever this stuff starts happening JW's amp up their preaching work and turn on the imaginary " fire alarm " scarring the crap out of non-JW householders they talk to and we see an influx of new JW's getting baptized, I hope it doesn't happen - but the WT Society uses allegedly " worsening world conditions " as a marketing tool indeed. I hope the JW growth slows down in time.
ZOOS- Very good point . A lot of Witnesses stay in for family and only do token service or none at all. It would be interesting to know how many do that.
CODED LOGIC- I understand what you are saying. I'm sure there is an overlap with baptized and unbaptized publishers being counted twice so it's hard to be accurate of course. But it's interesting to discuss the numbers. I'm not looking for perfection here or hard and fast numerical rules.
SIR 82- I agree there is a correlation between new publishers and new baptisms . And it is impossible to say just exactly what the numbers are because we don't know if the WT Society is fudging on the numbers or not, or just how much
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10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)
by flipper in10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.
walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .
some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.
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flipper
ON THE WAY OUT- Happy Thanksgiving to you friend ! We'll have to catch up this weekend . Good points you make. Depending on WHICH kids parents are exiting yes indeed teenage children who may be hating the JW experience anyway will be really glad when one parent exits the JW cult as it gives them a reason to exit. The problem with that working all the time with young folks is like what happened in my case - I exited the cult cold turkey and my fanatic JW ex-wife used it as an opportunity to try turning all 3 of my teenagers against me claiming that, " your dad is rebellious because he is disagreeing with the elders and not being obedient to Jehovah. " So from then on in late 2003 onward my two daughters started shunning me.
JW's are some of the most manipulative, deceitful people I know on the planet who use circumstances to turn friends and family against one another- I know as I have lived it. But as you say leaving cold turkey IS a good thing for the person leaving AND if the JW teenagers are ready to leave as well- but it can have a reverse effect too. And go the other way.
As you mention getting away from the " thought control speeches " is essential to freeing one's mind from the WT Society scummy dross teachings and mind manipulation. I'm glad we are free ! Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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HAPPY THANKSGIVING ERRRRRRRRRR BODY.!!!
by brandnew injust wanna say.....im thankfull for y'all....n stuff
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flipper
Happy Thanksgiving everybody ! Enjoy eating your turkey and stuffin' this weekend and get fat and sassy not worrying about evil calories and get so much tryptophan into your system from that turkey that you sleep peacefully for days if you so desire ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
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10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)
by flipper in10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.
walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .
some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.
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flipper
TORNINTWO- Thanks for the kind words, I just noticed you bumped this up. I think all of us as ex-JW's can do a lot to support one another. We get a lot more support here than we ever did at a kingdom hall. Take care have a nice Thanksgiving ! Peace out, mr. Flipper -
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For the Supporters of Those Who Love Jehovah
by lovesjehovah ini am jehovah's witness, despite some of the questionable teachings, crimes, and other outlandish behaviors of specific people affiliated with the religion.
i know that my relationship with jehovah is not influenced by any outside factors.
i do not condone any crime.
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flipper
LOVESJEHOVAH- In order to " talk about love and Jehovah in a positive light " - wouldn't that include FIRST acknowledging that within the organization WT leaders claim that he is using - it would involve admitting that Jehovah needs to either clean out that organization or else take his approval away from that organization if the WT leaders refused to do justice as Jehovah states ?
A person just can't bury one's head in the sand ignoring unrighteousness if the actions don't harmonize with the Bible or Jehovah's laws and principles - correct ? o you agree it needs to be addressed even on this thread ? Otherwise it's just like trying to stop the Titanic from sinking while the band plays music sinking into the waters of destruction in the ocean ? You see my point ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Yeah, my parents plan to will everything to this parasitic organization and forsake their seed
by Phaedra inyeah, they'll leave it all, their home, savings, etc.. never mind helping out their struggling children who never had a chance.. fuck this organization and everything it stands for when its members think god will favor them more by willing everything to a corporation instead of their own struggling seed..
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flipper
PHAEDRA- I'm so sorry to hear this is happening to you. I worry as well about how much of my older JW's parents money the WT Society will end up getting. We are here for you, go through similar anxious moments. Hang in there, Peace out, Mr. Flipper