Posts by flipper

33

Richard Ashe Court Deposition - " Let elders handle child abuse- don't talk about it "

by flipper in

as some of you know i was given pdf files of much of the conti and lopez child abuse court cases and asked from a friend to peruse through it and post some excerpts on the board here that may have been missed or not addressed in the pbs newshour report or the abc news nightline report.

so after going through this richard ashe testimony i feel i found something quite interesting that exposes the real attitudes of the wt society leaders towards child abuse and the attitudes wt leaders put into it's appointed men's minds as well.

the viewpoint that richard ashe displays is repeated in elders throughout thousands of jw congregations on this planet.

flipper

ON THE WAY OUT- Indeed Richard Ashe contradicted himself often in his testimony. He's learned from the best in the business the GB and WT higher ups. I believe background checks should occur too before appointing elders- but as you state that will never happen. Then it would really show that the alleged " holy spirit " isn't running this operation. And I agree with you- WT needs to start treating child abuse accusations like they would murder accusations. To do any less is an insult to children and their parents.

DESIROUS of CHANGE- Elders aren't trained for anything other than following the WT leaders orders. You know - like good, er , bad Nazi soldiers.

DATA-DOG- As you mentioned WT Society will probably never take the time to do background checks as they are too arrogant to feel they need to be double checked on anything. It's all about their feeling of entitlement that prevents them from obeying the law in the first place.

JW LEAKS- Thanks for the reference to the " straw man " argument style. Exactly what Richard Ashe was doing.

RETROVIRUS- Yeah, by insisting on the asinine " two witness rule " - WT Society definitely sets child abuse victims up to suffer in silence. It's criminal and disgusting.

CHA CHING- Good point. Not being in their best interest could very well be interpreted as " getting DFed. " Good point.

TRUTHSEEKERIAM- You bring up a really good point that by silencing victims of child abuse- it definitely empowers child molesters and pedophiles to get away with even more crimes. WT Society is training elders to aid and abet felony crimes within their congregations. Pretty sick.

POKERPLAYERPHIL- WT Society only cares about the bottom line- following WT legal department orders and preventing financial loss to the WT organization. Whether WT leaders commit crimes or not- it's irrelevant to WT legal or WT leaders. Just save face and APPEAR to the public to have an air of " respectability ". WT leaders and WT attorneys as well as Ashe perjured themselves many times on the stand in court- but to them it's just " theocratic warfare " to defeat the " worldly authorities "

Be back to answer pg. 2 in awhile.

33

Richard Ashe Court Deposition - " Let elders handle child abuse- don't talk about it "

by flipper in

as some of you know i was given pdf files of much of the conti and lopez child abuse court cases and asked from a friend to peruse through it and post some excerpts on the board here that may have been missed or not addressed in the pbs newshour report or the abc news nightline report.

so after going through this richard ashe testimony i feel i found something quite interesting that exposes the real attitudes of the wt society leaders towards child abuse and the attitudes wt leaders put into it's appointed men's minds as well.

the viewpoint that richard ashe displays is repeated in elders throughout thousands of jw congregations on this planet.

flipper

Been working a lot lately, finally have a little time to reply to you folks. Thanks so much for the great responses ! Really interesting observations.

KAIROS- I'll post some more threads in a couple weeks or so from other documents I have downloaded. WT Society is running scared indeed. I don't know if they are in a free fall- but they are against the ropes being pounded by a boxer called " information access" from the Internet.

VIDIOT- Richard Ashe and all the other higher ups in the WT organization are really good at compartmentalizing the information and hiding information as well. They've been trained to ONLY reveal what is necessary to courts - and even then it's like pulling hen's teeth to get anything out of them. You make a good point about JW's not wanting to hear it because it will undermine their " trust " or " faith " in the WT organization. You hit a nail on the head there for sure.

BREAKFAST of CHAMPIONS- Indeed not surprising, but interesting to see the total callousness of Richard Ashe and WT leaders.

TERRY- Good point you make- NO elders are trained to be counselors regarding child abuse issues. They don't have educated training from universities or majors in psychology or mental health training. WT is ludicrous in claiming to have " trained elders " - only thing they are trained in is going along with WT leaders directions.

WIFIBANDIT- You are welcome. I would have loved to see all of Richard Ashe's testimony as well. At least I read it. Just sharing the juicy parts here.

CRAZYGUY- That's disgusting what happened to that rape victim. Just disgusting. It's so common in the JW organization though that the victim gets blamed.

Gotta take a break, be back later to reply to the rest of the comments

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

flipper

The more any current JW researches on the Internet they will be exposed to or given access to much information indicating that the WT Society is a criminal organization. It cannot be denied anymore. People may try to deny it- but a rose is a rose is a rose. Any who stay within the organization and realize it's criminal - are really just deluding themselves into the old " ignorance is bliss " syndrome and being untrue to their own inner sense of well being or not heeding their conscience pricking at them. It's certainly an unhealthy way to live mentally , emotionally, or physically

11

Attention Lurkers- what the org is really doing

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

the message has changed dramatically from the good news of the kingdom and imitation of jesus to the following:.

1. keep your eye simple and try to find a low paying part time job so you can pioneer.

such jobs might be janitorial or house cleaning, yard care, etc.

flipper

Any lurkers reading this. Please educate yourself on the Internet by doing research into the criminal activity of the WT Society. It's not hard to find out about it. Then you may see why the WT Society is so interested in wanting more donations. Please google Candace Conti child abuse. Or Irwin Zalkin WT child abuse. He's an attorney who is representing MANY JW children victims of abuse right now. You will find that the WT Society has been dishonest about revealing their child abuse problem to the courts. Lies have been told and the TRUTH about how bad child abuse is happening within the JW organization is being hidden from you- rank & file Jehovah's Witnesses.

Do yourself a favor and find out the real truth about the alleged " truth " today. Do not hesitate or delay. The rest of your life is there for you to live and NOT for the WT leaders to steal away. You may find out where your donations have been going. Take care, we are here for you. The WT leaders are not there for you. They want to " use " you

28

May tv broadcast

by New day in

somebody on another thread suggested that those still in could express their opinions on steven lett's performance.

i am still in and i was shocked, dismayed and saddened by it.

i became a witness over 30 yrs ago and the issue of donations was a non-issue for so many years.. now, it is a huge one for the org.

flipper

NEW DAY- Welcome to the board. Many of us here were born-ins to the JW organization and raised in it from birth. I exited at age 44 over 11 years ago. I really feel empathy for you and I know how hard it hits us when we find out we've been deceived and lied to regarding the GB's motives and the motives of the leaders of the WT Society. Please realize that you are not alone in feeling this.

After I stopped attending meetings in 2003 - I was horrified to find out about the criminal child abuse policies of the WT society when I researched it in 2007 initially. It made me angry and I felt like kicking someone's ass ! To think that children were being thrown under the bus in order to keep confidential the identities of JW pedophiles. Meanwhile more JW children got sexually abused while the WT Society tried to protect it's image. As others have stated here- now it's all about the money . It's a billion $$$ organization and more child abuse lawsuits are hitting WT leaders between the financial eyes . So this gives you a little more insight as to the motive for begging rank & file JW's for more money. To cover these lawsuits AND just the pure simple fact that WT leaders want to keep leeching money out of poor JW's to further the WT billion $$$ empire. I'm glad to hear you are awakening to this reality. I know it's hard to observe- but please know we are here as a support to you, O.K. ? Take care, if you ever need some friends who understand please feel free to PM me or my wife. Hang in there

22

Lett and his instruction in KMS

by JWdaughter in

ok, l know i am not the first to notice or likely comment on this, but as little as i respect commenting on persons, i am going to do it now.. lett seems like a charicature.

he is so strange-i cringe when i watch him speak.its as ifhe was once given advice to speak slowly and clearly and now he just talks like a cartoon.

he creeps me out.

flipper

JW DAUGHTER- I'm not showing disrespect to Mr. Rogers. I liked Mr. Rogers- my kids grew up watching Mr. Rogers. The comparison is in regards to how Lett talks real slowwww like Mr. Rogers- as if he's talking to children. I realize Mr. Rogers was a really nice guy

22

Lett and his instruction in KMS

by JWdaughter in

ok, l know i am not the first to notice or likely comment on this, but as little as i respect commenting on persons, i am going to do it now.. lett seems like a charicature.

he is so strange-i cringe when i watch him speak.its as ifhe was once given advice to speak slowly and clearly and now he just talks like a cartoon.

he creeps me out.

flipper

Lett reminds me of Mr. Rogers on steroids . He has the slowwww , simplistic style like he's talking to JW's like they're children - yet he doesn't seem as sincere as Mr. Rogers. Notice Lett's facial expressions after he smiles . He tries to appear sincere when he smiles but his eyes squeeze tightly after he smiles as if indicating tension in his face which betrays his lack of sincerity. Indeed- he creeps me the hell out as well. A plastic , fake apparent " niceness " to him. I've seen the type before

33

Richard Ashe Court Deposition - " Let elders handle child abuse- don't talk about it "

by flipper in

as some of you know i was given pdf files of much of the conti and lopez child abuse court cases and asked from a friend to peruse through it and post some excerpts on the board here that may have been missed or not addressed in the pbs newshour report or the abc news nightline report.

so after going through this richard ashe testimony i feel i found something quite interesting that exposes the real attitudes of the wt society leaders towards child abuse and the attitudes wt leaders put into it's appointed men's minds as well.

the viewpoint that richard ashe displays is repeated in elders throughout thousands of jw congregations on this planet.

flipper

As some of you know I was given pdf files of much of the Conti and Lopez child abuse court cases and asked from a friend to peruse through it and post some excerpts on the board here that may have been missed or not addressed in the PBS Newshour report or the ABC News Nightline report. So after going through this Richard Ashe testimony I feel I found something quite interesting that exposes the real attitudes of the WT Society leaders towards child abuse AND the attitudes WT leaders put into it's appointed men's minds as well. The viewpoint that Richard Ashe displays is repeated in elders throughout thousands of JW congregations on this planet.

In Ashe's court deposition on pg. 300 attorney Irwin Zalkin asked him this question, " Was it the policy of the Jehovah's Witness organization that a member who is a victim of childhood sexual abuse should NOT discuss that with other members of the congregation ? "

Richard Ashe replied, " It was encouraged that such individuals would talk to the shepherds of the congregation to get spiritual assistance . But to go out indiscriminately and talk about it with others, that's a PERSONAL DECISION they make. WE DON"T CONTROL INDIVIDUALS. " O.K. This is an out and out lie that he states here. Much evidence indicates that young JW child abuse victims HAVE been DFed in the past for telling others in the congregation that they were molested . Even JW family members of child abuse victims HAVE been DFed for talking about a child abuse situation within their congregations - so Ashe is lying when he claims that " no sanctions " are levied against child abuse victims or their families. " It HAS happened .

Now notice in Ashe's next comments how he contradicts his first statement about " not controlling individuals " . Richard Ashe continues in answering Zalkin, " But you try and help them ( child abuse victims ) to see that by talking about this with others indiscriminately , especially an allegation of child abuse that has not been proven or established by means of scriptural standard of evidence- may NOT be in the best interest of the person, NOT because of any sanction by the organization, but just by the personal response that they may receive from others, they simply DO NOT WANT TO HEAR about these things. They're not elders. They're not trained shepherds, and they may be going through situations in their own life that they can't bear hearing these things. " So let me get this straight. In this organization that claims to have the " MOST loving people " on the earth- a child abuse victim is better served to stay quiet, not seek out emotional support from his or her " loving Christian brothers and sisters or close friends ? " How does Richard Ashe get off saying that most of fellow JW's " don't want to hear about these things " ? Why ? So the elders and WT leaders won't be embarrassed that felony child abuse is alive and happening within many congregations ?

It's obvious to me and I'm sure others that the goal of the WT Society is to cause separation between victims of child abuse and their " brothers and sisters " who should be allowed to support these victims. It's a way many mind control cults use in alienating victims, or " trouble makers " who would otherwise influence rank &file JW's against the criminal WT child abuse policies which protect pedophiles- not victims of child abuse. So that's how I see this particular deposition by Richard Ashe. I welcome any and all comments, observations, or views on this. Your comments are needed to keep the public aware of the behind the scenes criminality occurring by the WT Society and it's leaders. I look forward to your views. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

15

I'm in a movie!

by avishai in

jw
friends

i'm playing pulitzer.. https://vimeo.com/118626005.

flipper

AVISHAI- Really freaking cool bro ! Congratulations ! Your part as Pulitzer looks great ! This looks like a really good movie. Wife and I will have to watch it . Thanks for sharing. My best wishes to you on your acting career. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

35

New on here

by Tony Stark in

hey so i'm new on here.

just wanted to introduce myself.

in my 20's and was rasied one, and very popular among the jw community.

flipper

TONY - NIce to have you here , you are among friends who will be a support to you. I was DFed for about 4 years and even after being out 11 years I still experience shunning from some of my JW family. Hang in there guy, we care and understand