Posts by flipper

24

would it have been different if we knew why?

by sowhatnow in

i always took issue with the idea of no one knowing why a person got df.. i know im not alone.. i complained to my mother about this when i was younger, explaining that how do we know what it is that gets a person df if no one knows what they did?

my moms answer was , .

'if people knew a persons personal faults and what they did , others would not be so forgiving when they were reinstated, because we'd always view them with that view, so in other words, if when so n so, committed fornication, and the whole cong would know it, if they announced from the platform then his/her reputation would be permanently stained' .

flipper

How 'bout this ? The whole IDEA of disfellowshipping is wrong in the first place. Here's a better idea. If a JW member is guilty of a crime like murder, child abuse, assault, or robbery- or other crimes that would actually ENDANGER other members of the congregation make an announcement that so and so ( their names ) have been found guilty of these crimes and the congregation is being informed and forewarned of this so as to protect themselves and their children. Most probably the guilty party will then not show up again if he or she knows their criminality has been exposed. And the elders would have done the ethical thing informing about crimes that any " worldly " newspaper would have already reported.

As regards fornication, adultery, alcoholism, drug abuse, apostasy leading to inactive status - for the most part these are personal family issues that should be dealt with in a personal family environment. No need for spreading personal dirty laundry that doesn't involve congregation members. No need for announcements whatsoever with any personal names being used.

Of course this is just my personal opinion and has no bearing on WT Society reality as it works right now. But I believe my way would be more efficient and fair to congregation members. If the elders wanted to handle the fornication and all the other stuff I mentioned in paragraph 2 in private counseling- then that's up to them. But in regards to the paragraph 2 practices I mentioned- really NO need to announce DFing or personal names at all. But the paragraph 1 stuff could actually harm congregation members and is announced by names in the media constantly anyway. Just my 2 cents

109

Are we going to see a mass awakening?

by kairos in

jw
friends

the internet is the archive for civilization.. watchtower cannot hide it's history.. are we seeing the beginning of a mass exodus out of her?.

flipper

VIDIOT- Yeah, I've experienced seeing that fear in JW's eyes when they see me at a grocery store or somewhere in public. They actually run away from me. I had that happen in a bank parking lot when my JW daughter's Witness mother in law was about 10 feet from me in a bank parking lot and she hurried to get in her car before I could say " Hi ". I asked her how she was doing and she quickly said, " fine" with a scowl and slammed her car door shut ! LOL.

Bottom line is the WT Society tells JW's that we as ex-JW's are DANGEROUS to them spiritually, that we are " mentally diseased " and have " Satan's mind " - so it scares the Bejesus out of Witnesses because they think they'll catch " spiritual cooties" from us if they get too close. So they are indoctrinated to think we are a danger to them. One reason my JW daughters haven't associated with me for 11 years. The fear is deep within them more than you would think. They think we will change them away from the WT organization- therefore they shun us. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

15

This weeks meeting remarks

by StarTrekAngel in

just come here to vent a bit.

last night we had one of those meeting where i had a hard time keeping my eyes from rolling.

i tell you, sometimes i think they have a mind of their own, my eyes that is.

flipper

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I like this quote, " human organizations are prone to rigidity and unreasonableness. Because of pride, men often refuse to adapt to changing needs and circumstances. How happy we can be that neither Jehovah nor his organization is anything like that. " Happy, happy, happy ! Ick.

Uh-huh. Nothing rigid and unreasonable for refusing to follow court orders to hand over child abuse information or have a GB member testify when a judge requests it, right ? I guess we shall see if due to PRIDE the GB and WT leaders continue to hold to the same horrific child abuse policies or will they " refuse to adapt to changing needs and circumstances . " Stay tuned- I think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Ridiculous. Bunch of freaking hypocrites

23

Is there anything about the JW's you still like?

by donny in

some jw's on various postingshave asked me was there anything about the jw's i still agree with.

of course there are some things i agree with and some i partially do.

1. political involvement - while i do not agree with totally avoiding anything associated with politics, i agree that many of todays churches are way too involved in trying to sway their constituents beliefs.

flipper

I definitely agree with the comment that Undercover made that NO amount of good things the WT Society does can make up for hiding crimes committed by their elders regarding child abuse and insisting on attaining their OWN rights and freedom - yet stripping their own JW rank & file members of THEIR rights and freedoms. Especially regarding child abuse and the agony of parents and children being unjustly treated by the WT Society and appointed elders , Witnesses not receiving blood transfusions causing many deaths through the years , shunning policy leading to many suicides by people who are shunned , the death of thousands of Malawi JW's who didn't get a political party card- yet this same rule was not applied to the Witnesses in Mexico and they lived because WT Society said they could register in the military.

I could go on and on.......... the list is endless, lives destroyed due to not being allowed to get a higher education, but oh WAIT ! That's just for the rank & file JW's, WT GB members and WT attorneys were allowed to get a higher education. Does that mean that WT Society GB and higher up WT elders don't have to follow WT rules and regulations ? You bet it does. They make up the rules and regulations as they go along - whatever rules and regulations will benefit the financial well being of the WT organization- that's what they'll do. Did I mention about the Kingdom hall takeovers ? The volunteer labor with rank & file JW's paying the WT Society hard earned donated money so that in the end- WT Society gets title on all the land and property ?

The hypocrisy, evil, and stench of this organization rises up into the universe and permeates the solar system. I call a spade a spade. It's pure evil. WT Society has a lot of bloodguilt and death and lost lives on it's leaders heads that they are accountable for. And you're still asking me if there is anything I like about the Jehovah's Witnesses ? I rest my case. Answer's still NO - with emphasis on the NO

21

JUST WONDERIN BOUT THE G.B..... again.

by brandnew in

jw
friends

growing up, i never ever even saw these guys faces, or even knew their names.

all of a sudden they're on my computer screen, tv, and on every other magazine coming out of the watchtower machine.

why all the glamour now?

flipper

I agree with Oubliette - the GB 2.0 ARE narcissists. As one posters mom told him in a conversation " these GB aren't your granddaddy's GB . " Very true. Although the GB of yesteryear- Jaracz, Knorr, etc. DID think that they were " hot $hit on a stick " they weren't so blatant about commercializing their power and control over the mass millions of JW's to the extent of going on T.V. to be seen. But come to think of it- the old GB had a lot to hide regarding some of their alleged child abuse committed from GB members themselves- so perhaps they wanted their faces " out of sight , out of mind ". It's a possibility. The current GB is working hard to continue consolidating power and control over the mass of JW's. Especially Anthony Morris. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

109

Are we going to see a mass awakening?

by kairos in

jw
friends

the internet is the archive for civilization.. watchtower cannot hide it's history.. are we seeing the beginning of a mass exodus out of her?.

flipper

KAIROS- Good thread, thanks for posting it . In answer to your question about how your friends will view you or wonder WHY you left the organization- I found out in my case that most of them just PRE-JUDGE you as to why you left the organization. In Steve Hassan's books he states that the common factor in many mind control cults is that the people are trained to feel that there is " no acceptable way to exit the cult where you will still be approved. ". In other words - if you leave the cult it's ALWAYS for a Satanic, negative reason in JW's eyes. A person will be looked at as " weak ", " lacking spirituality " , or looked at as " rebellious ". And that is how the WT leaders INDOCTRINATE JW's to look at any JW who leaves the organization. That's why active JW's are scared $hitless of us- their minds have been conditioned and trained to be in fear of us. It's all part of the WT mind control. If you get a chance, read Steve Hassan's books, you'll really learn a lot . The psychology of mind control is a fascinating study.

As regards how people ( JW's ) are coping with the fact that older JW's are dying. I know with my extended JW family it troubles my older siblings to see my JW parents in their late 80's - but they are like ostriches who stick their heads in the sand and don't want to address the obvious- that not only my parents will die- but so will they , me, you, everybody. They are delusional about it and once again it's due to the deceptive power of JW cult mind control. Never underestimate the power of mind control - it's wasted many a good life . I think most JW's just stick their heads in the sand and don't want to be confused with the facts

16

The difference between old school dubs and modern dubs - and the GB 2.0

by TheListener in

old school witnesses thrived on the fact they were different and persecuted for it.

it was a point of pride.. i think the whole witness experience is much more social based for younger and newer witnesses.

that may be why so many newer ones that come to this board cannot understand or accept some of the information we present here about how things "used to be".

flipper

Good thread. Interesting points you bring up. That could be a very explainable reason that newer joining board members don't understand what all the uproar is about when we expose former WT teachings to them. They never even HEARD of these WT teachings. It's just like 1984 ( the book ) all over again. Where the powers that be destroyed or incinerated all their " old " information so newer members could not even KNOW what the old information was. So even many new JW's nowadays don't even realize that there was a 1975 debacle. Unless they look outside the WT organization onto the internet. Amazing how information control works in JW land

14

my name is abigail

by wakeupbuttercup in

jw
friends

long time lurker here.

i don't want hate in our hearts - jw are wrong oh so wrong - and i want to blame this religion for making me cold and distant to the world.

but i believe everything is meant to be, we all have purpose in this world.

flipper

WAKEUPBUTTERCUP- Nice to have you here ! Welcome indeed. I'm glad that you've attained your freedom of mind from the JW organization. The WT Society has done a real number on people for sure. I was a born-in JW who exited finally at age 44 over 11 years ago. It's never too late to bolt for freedom and never too late to pursue our dreams. Good for you. Keep on keeping on sister. We are here as a support to you my friend

23

Is there anything about the JW's you still like?

by donny in

some jw's on various postingshave asked me was there anything about the jw's i still agree with.

of course there are some things i agree with and some i partially do.

1. political involvement - while i do not agree with totally avoiding anything associated with politics, i agree that many of todays churches are way too involved in trying to sway their constituents beliefs.

flipper

How about ? No, nothing, none whatsoever

9

how many of you are parents of adult children who still follow the wt and think you are misled?

by sowhatnow in

what have you done so far as to convince them they are misled?

what has worked for you.. it is inconceivable to me, that if my mother or father showed me proof of why the wt org is false, that i wouldn't take them seriously, after all they are older and should know better, but it seems there are some of you who have the opposite outcome, where your children think you are misled and senile, and grandparents are surely labeled as senile.

one would reason then, if this were truly the case, that you are 'senile' or demented, then wouldn't that be taken into consideration when having loving contact with your parents?

flipper

SOWHATNOW- I have two JW daughters who are aged 28 and 26 respectively who are regular pioneers and have shunned me for 11 years now after I left the JW cult. I have tried talking with them = carefully - about certain things, i.e. WT child abuse, generation changes, but they are SOOO mind controlled and indoctrinated it's like you are talking to a JW Zombie member from the show " Walking Dead ". Nothing gets through. Like talking to a brick wall due to the power of WT mind control indoctrination in their brain. And there's a VERY fine line that you have to walk or you'll piss them off and it becomes one step forward- three steps back trying to talk about TTATT to them.

So I just try to call them on the phone and leave messages about how me and my wife are doing, tell them I love them, and I'd love to chat with them sometime. My daughters also shun my son who is 30, their older brother as he exited about 12 years ago as well. So my son and me keep hoping that something will happen with them, perhaps they'll suffer some injustice from elders in the cult or something else will trip their hardwired brains. It's all you can hope for. A JW has to be able to see TTATT themselves. Until they do- their brains are hardwired to reject and put down any information that's negative concerning the WT Society. Even child abuse scandals. So we patiently wait and keep showing unconditional love to them. When their JW view of the REAL world collapses, me. my wife, and my son will be there for them. nd deep down, I know my daughters realize that. So that's it in a nutshell