Posts by humbled

24

should i marry and have a child with my partner

by stevepill in

hi, iv'e been a regular observer on this site for a while and would be very grateful for input from witnessess and non-witnessess.

ti widll try keep it brief to avoid too much reading!.

background:.

humbled

Have a child when you know how miserable this religion is for a couple who are all-in? And worse for those "unevenly yoked"?

And raising the child?

No.

No. No.

68

Spanking VS. Reasoning

by SpeedRacer in

jw
friends

i am having a discussion at work with the jw's.

should you spank a child to make them understand or do you reason with them.

they both agree with spanking.

thanks for your comments. I am one who received spankings as a child and I do not have rancor or criticism for the parent who spanked. On the other hand, the punishment I received from the other parent has hurt to this day.

I was the second oldest of (eventually) nine children. Obviously there were years when there were fewer children. My parents--but especially my father-- explained right and wrong behavior and how to assess the value of my actions. He was a soldier. Tough but fair was how another man measured him.

Dad was remarkably ethical in many difficult situations that I witnessed growing up. He had the challenge any man or woman who went to work and came home with to-do lists and a growing family and a spouse and the need for a little space of his own. His word was valued in the home. We generally did as we were told. He would fire "a shot across the bow" before a spanking occurred. When it came, we knew we had engaged his superior force by choice. Although I was slapped once without warning when I made a sneering remark to him as a sassy 11 year old. I was embarrassed to think I had been so disrespectful to him. In retrospect, he might have sat me down and talked to me about my behavior and I would have been just as ashamed. But there were 7 kids in the family so I will not fault him for his flash response in the thick of it all. I have no scars from any of his words or actions toward me -not mentally or physically.

My mother didn't spank us really. We were harangued--In fact,(and this will sound bad to some), when dad would be near enough to hear the bedlam, he might sort it out, saying as he did at times: "Reason, sweet reason, Joanne--hit them!"

Poor mom. There was a bit of anarchy in the house when dad was gone. It is difficult to manage a mob like we were. But it was mostly when the population grew and we older children were getting to be in our teens that her way of dealing with discipline or instruction was troubling. She had words that would demean and humiliate that were not instructive. Her words would cut your hope of ever measuring up.

there is what i have to add.

Maeve

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

humbled

Absolutely thrilling.

JWs loving and thinking about what is best for their child. What next?

24

The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!

by stuckinarut2 in

this has to be watched!!!

so thought provoking!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.

humbled

Cold Steel,

How can I truly love a god who threatens me with horror and death if I do not love Him?

You quote selections from one person and another, Cold Steel. Why do you pick some and not others to quote? You yourself have had to implicitly ignored centuries of other theologians to embrace the teachings of Joseph Smith and subsequent prophets of the LDS church. Myself, I am no more inclined to the believe earlier theologians who invented the Immaculate Conception than I am to believe that Joseph Smith walked with God in the Sacred Grove in New York State.

Don't I stand then on as good a ground as you if I declare that you are wrong to accept the sayings of such and such prophets? What makes them prophets, gives them the right to tell you or me what god says? How can you judge my faith?

In the end, though you may believe it when others say they know that God spoke to them, what they believe may not be true. But religions form around these men who speak for god. Religion uses at least mild coercion to form its body, true? sometimes more than mild coercion. Shunning? Shaming? Even death.

You have no way to shame or frighten me with scriptures that threaten me for failure to believe that god said so-and-so through this man or that. Wouldn't a god worth his salt will know if I am actually unconvinced of the doctrines I had pushed on me and was simply afraid to say so?

Revelation promises a lake of fire awaits those who are liars and cowards.

Why isn't love and honesty enough for you, Cold Steel?

Edit:

I thought of pulling this just after posting it. I had re-read your last response and I do not see a conversation of value emerging from our exchange. The thread concerns the Abraham/Isaac test and it is true that I no longer buy into the imposed story line that Christian theism demands from biblical readings.

So flog away, Cold Steel, you are right to think I am not with any religious programs. I am away to meditate on how to love better and how to be more honest.

12

David and Abishag

by opusdei1972 in

1 king david was now very old, and no matter how many blankets covered him, he could not keep warm.2 so his advisers told him, let us find a young virgin to wait on you and look after you, my lord.

she will lie in your arms and keep you warm.

3 so they searched throughout the land of israel for a beautiful girl, and they found abishag from shunem and brought her to the king.4 the girl was very beautiful, and she looked after the king and took care of him.

humbled

Thanks for that, splash. It is a touching story, the shulamite girl's. That she would have loved the old man David and rejected Soloman's advances--Who knows the truth of any of it? But i like to think this was so.

24

The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!

by stuckinarut2 in

this has to be watched!!!

so thought provoking!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.

humbled

Dear Cold Steel,

Why do you call me an atheist? It was my defense of God's character that caused me to get thrown out of/leave the WT Organization.

My reason for rejecting the mainstream interpretation of God calling for a blood sacrifice of Abraham's Isaac as a test of faith was not based on a personal preference. It was based on faith that what God had revealed about himself was constant and true: God condemns human sacrifice, He does not lie, He does not test anyone with evil when he himself had declared that human sacrifice was evil.

That Jesus appealed to common-sense reasoning to the common folk to whom he preached was a powerful incentive to rejecting the illogic of God contradicting himself. I realized that there was a vast distance between myself and the scene of Genesis 22. I had to be as steady in my bible reading for me to be steady against elders like yourself, Cold Steel, that warned me that I was guilty of pride or stupidity or both not to yield to men of better minds and greater faith.

I had to trust that God would at least give me credit for not accepting the central moment of the OT and the basis for the NT would not be a total contradiction of all Jesus taught.

It took years of study and research into the development of written Hebrew, the manner in which the OT had been edited (Job and Genesis 22 likely untouched by that process), the discrete differences between the Hebrew words for sacrifice and burnt offering. It meant collating the instances in which they appeared side by side and individually in scripture. Yes, Cold Steel, It involved context.

Above all I looked at context.

Ultimately, I looked at myself in the context of religion. I saw that religion demanded that I must endorse a central precept of God that violated God's own descriptions of who the true God is. If I pretended to believe this I could not live my life with honesty. So I had to accept my own limited understanding of who god might or might not be and be honest with others about it. I had to have faith that I would not have to fear the wrath of God for this. I would in fact have to trust his mercy.

I believe that a wounded love is what holds life together, that suffers with us. I believe that we are burnt offerings that live within the smoke of a dark hope.

I do not believe in your god, Cold Steel. But this does not make me an atheist. It doesn't make me brilliant or stupid. It does make me honest. Not Thomas Aquinas, nor Hugh Nibley, nor Josephus, nor the apostle Paul can prevail upon me to believe a god of love said "Kill the lad."

Not even did the bible say it.

Maeve

24

The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!

by stuckinarut2 in

this has to be watched!!!

so thought provoking!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.

humbled

Quoting Josephus and an LDS prophet is not kosher in this case, Cold Steel. And no one knows how God "spoke" to Abraham--the bible has no words adequate to convey how Abraham received the message at Genesis 22.

The word "sacrifice " is NEVER used in the passage. And there is a word specific for killing the creature being offered: zebach.

You do not understand that the concern is less about how Abraham behaved as about the behavior of God. God the not-liar, the not-wanting-human-sacrifice God, the I-don't-test-with-evil God.

There is a select canon of scriptures that are the single ground for digging up Christian religion's "Truth". Even the LDS church has to deal with the Bible to call itself a Christian denomination--even though LDS prophets use plenty of other extra-biblical sources that modify/qualify the Hebrew/Greek text.

As for Abraham being a type for Jehovah? "For God so loved the world that he killed his only begotten son."? No--it does not say that.

If it were possible for us to imagine a god who was trying to teach us to trust but not kill; a god who wanted us not to act according to a committee's vote but with stumbling faith then we might have held out for a more ambiguous and spiritual intent for this story's reason to exist.

There is no consistency in many of the stories. I do not think we are up to telling the story of god if there is one.

12

David and Abishag

by opusdei1972 in

1 king david was now very old, and no matter how many blankets covered him, he could not keep warm.2 so his advisers told him, let us find a young virgin to wait on you and look after you, my lord.

she will lie in your arms and keep you warm.

3 so they searched throughout the land of israel for a beautiful girl, and they found abishag from shunem and brought her to the king.4 the girl was very beautiful, and she looked after the king and took care of him.

humbled

How would anyone know?

But she didn't have a child with him, at any rate.

Sad to think that she didn't have a child yet was not allowed to remarry after David's death. In fact, the man who asked to marry her was killed (1 Kings 2) as it was considered a move to usurp the throne.

She was simply a political pawn without any kids to drive her nuts comfort her in her old age. Sad.

15

RIP at least the world didn't get him, words of comfort?

by MissFit in

to my grieving sister about the death of her only son almost 2 year ago.

he was 25.. we were having lunch when she repeated those words of"wisdom" from one of her jw in-laws.

this is a hard month for her.

humbled

Any words that include "God" in connection with the death of a child or a youngster are not comforting.

where is the love? Even Jesus is said to have had compassion on parents who lost a child--and raised them to life--then and there.

I am sorry for her--I could only try to remember the good times......

24

The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!

by stuckinarut2 in

this has to be watched!!!

so thought provoking!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.

humbled

designs--

explain the concept, please? I have no patience with theological constructs that provide extraordinary ethical allowance for deity. But I am ever curious to discover how different cultures and religions warp the minds of people around concepts that the common people are prevented from adopting themselves.