( important note: my husband hated that i became a jw.
hated everything about it.).
he is the one who every morning makes our coffee in his beat-up metal perculator.
minimus, Terry--
Yep--I am still smiling about it-
Poor guy--22 years of having a JW for a -(cough)-partner. He hasn't said much about it since I left--until this morning's coffee.
I DID use to pour over those mags.
We are both glad I finally got OUT!
Happy Saturday morning to you!
( important note: my husband hated that i became a jw.
hated everything about it.).
he is the one who every morning makes our coffee in his beat-up metal perculator.
( Important note: My husband HATED that I became a JW. Hated everything about it.)
Now----
He is the one who every morning makes our coffee in his beat-up metal perculator. And this morning shuffling around the kitchen with the fresh perked coffee pot in his hand exclaimed "There is one thing I will say that I really miss about you leaving the Witnesses"
--and I will say I was shocked to hear this. My mind drew a complete blank as to what this fervent and thoughtful hater of the Organization would MISS about me being a JW... so I waited to hear this revelation:
"In the past I could always find one of those GOD-DAMNED Awakes or Watchtowers on the table to set the coffee pot on!"
from biblegateway:.
jesus forgives a woman taken in adulterythis story, beloved for its revelation of god's mercy toward sinners, is found only in john.
it was almost certainly not part of john's original gospel.
Phizzy,
I have gone with gut feelings about Jesus since leaving organized religion. The teachings either find a home in me or I throw them out. Is this cherry-picking? I'm not the only one then. There are ancient texts that early church fathers dis-allowed or cherry-picked from the beginning. Texts that suggest that Jesus never styled himself as the "Apostles Creed" does.
The story of the woman taken in adultery is wonderful--whoever told it.
Maeve
this is my first time posting here, although i have been a visitor to it for around a year.
after doing a simple google search under "jehovah'switnesses" over a year ago, i found ttat.
i was deeply unhappy with the congregation and decided to educate myself, and boy what an education i have gotten so far.
Airborne,
That was a great letter. It left a way for the men who read it to reflect. Or if it sticks in their craw--well, they still have to deal with the points you made so well.
i hve continued to live by the teachings that have been attributed to Jesus. I do not trust the Bible, however, which leave me to a great deal of discretion as to how I follow Jesus. Called cherry-picking by some. I have no trouble hearing good teachings where ever it comes from. In the end we have to answer to our own heart. We have to be honest with ourselves.
All the best!
maeve
three months ago i had to stop driving my car.
it wouldn't pass inspection and it would cost about $3k to get it up to par.. well, it's a 98 honda accord with about 179 thousand miles on it, what did i expect?.
.. i decided i would switch to riding a bicycle instead.. it has worked out fairly well.. i put about 10 miles a day on it.
It is a particular pain to have the thief look you over and still rob you. More personal. Rotten to loose your transportation and have to buy it again. Maeve
after reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
Coded Logic,
Forms of logic that I have not learned that you have studied: Epistemology, Inductive Reasoning, Deductive Reasoning, Abductive Reasoning, Instrumental Rationality, Syllogisms, Logical absolutes, and Synthetic and Analytic Distinctions.
But this in no way suggests that I lack what is the first prerequisite of reasonableness or the ability to be logical: having an open mind.
Even when a person doesn't know these things you named, they may yet possess the positive attributes of skepticism that allow for successful navigation in the world of conflicting claims. Naming a Logical Absolute or an Instrumental Rationality is not essential to reasonable thought, is it?
Does my confession of ignorance of logical forms mean I need a lesson how to have an open mind? What? You directed me to the video which featured a lesson in how to have an open mind simply because I do not know the list of words given above? Is that logical?
I am not sure of what to think of this situation. But is it possible that the illusion of superiority can cause one to assume that no uneducated person can have an open mind?
A great hero of mine is an illiterate former slaves named Sojourner Truth whose simple grasp of logic was a powerful instrument in countering the educated voices that believed that blacks were inferior to whites and that women were not deserving of rights equal to men.
By the way, Coded Logic, that was a great video-- everyone in the world should see it--no one needs to go to college to understand what it is saying.
Maeve
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Psac,
You say that "Compassion doesn't have anything to do with the Golden Rule per se" ?
Compassion IS the Golden Rule.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is one biblical translation. One's personal experience is the instructor of course. We know what is good for ourselves and are enjoined to consider that this is likewise the same for others. What hurts me will likewise pain them.
The Golden Rule, also translated as "Love thy neighbor as thyself" was well illustrated by Jesus' story of the Good Samaritan. Whether or not the Samaritan had suffered himself at the hands of robbers, we do not know. We do not know whether or not the priest or the levite had ever been beaten. But the story says the Samaritan, when he saw the beaten man, had compassion on him.
The story in Luke 10 both tells us the meaning of the Golden Rule (compassion) and how far it is meant to extend.
But the rule is not concerned with the origins of suffering. It simply relates how we should relate to sufferers.
You may choose to believe that God will at some future date restore the dead who suffered and died. But this much I can see for myself: the world is full of suffering and humans do NOT always respond with compassion to the sufferings of others (again, see the behavior of the priest and the levite in Jesus' illustration). Therefore, suffering on the scale that was manifested by the tsunami is a profligate, callous waste of life if this was God's way of re-hashing a precept that is/was already familiar to most people on earth while He himself disregarded the good example of that god-damnedSamaritan.
If suffering proves the compassions of God and his existence, then I hope I burn in hell.
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Compassion is universally valued, PSac.
The Golden Rulen in its various wordings among non-christians throughout the ages teaches compassion. Humans realize this all over he earth.
When suffering comes--and you properly say we all face it sooner or later--it does not matter how it comes to us. Humans who have been hurt know that it matters to comfort or help remedy the causes. The Golden Rule is the description of compassion for others. But what evidence is there that God-of-the-Bible invented compassion?
The Bible says that we deserve suffering and death for disobeying God a few thousand years ago. Compassion is a recent development in the Judeo-Christian timeline. But what of the evidence that compassion has been a part of other cultures clear outside the range of Jesus even?
Compassion is hands down the most important thing we have in this world, PSac. But suffering doesn't prove the existence of God.
Maeve
after reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
Coded Logic,
The problem of knowing the difference between bullshit and solid ground is one that I have had to learn on my own without an education.
It is a dirty process.
Others have found cleaner ways of doing it: there may be enzyme (sp?) markers and other biological metrics that tell the difference between excrement and earth (yes, I now they are related.) But I needed to learn how to measure the differences by picking it up and smelling it. (Note: the process is much easier for me to figure if I see the stuff coming directly out of a verified a**hole!)
I don't have an aptitude for learning forms of logic. I just don't know why. I am fairly intelligent but I have real blank spots in my mind for some forms of argument or debate. However, I was eventually able to find/fight my way out of the cult I was in as have others.
Further sorting out of religious bullshit has been necessary after I was past being a JW. On this board there are discussions that have been relentlessly poundings upon issues. These treads allow us deliberate difficult matters--Good debate must be accessable to all or it is still slight-of-hand to me. Just intellectual bullying. Also there are deep emotional aspects to the subjects that feed into our religious views. The problems we face on leaving the cult are complex.
I am afraid that the board tremendously weakens its hospitality to the wounded who stop in here because--as is often noted--many have not gone to college, have been janitors or house cleaners or window washers or some other low-level worker. We come to the board having found rudimentary ability to discuss things pertaining to TTATT. But Geez! this place is rough and some of us have no money for meds or therapy. We were indoctrinated by a crooked and destructive cult--all in the name of enlightened godly love--I think it is important to take care of each other and not let the board become too elite in its attitudes toward education. Because there are many uneducated people who have become sensitized to anthing that comes out of an perfect a**hole. They are suspicious of the content no matter how logical it seems.
Maeve
p.s. If I ever meta cognition I never knew it.
Also, I don't mean to suggest that ass-holery is restricted by degree of education. We know that equal opportunity extends to all people in that regard.
this is only jw (should that be jw.org now?
) related in that it is connected with religious faith which dominates a person's life.
but many similarities, i feel.. i never was a dub, was raised in a 'gospel hall' tradition, have been for many years an agnostic/atheist and am a fairly cynical/suspicious individual as befits an ex-30 year detective.
Counseling has helped me.
I used to believe that God was watching all the troubles and violence in my family and had a Plan for it all. This slowly caved in over the last few years. But what some might have viewed as strength had its roots in a passivity that slipped quickly into feelings of helplessness and depression.
Broken? Your BIL must get help to realize that his compassion and love make him vulnerable. Who doesn't hurt when the ones you love suffer and die? We all are subject to this breakage, aren't we?
He may have the questions rising from within that many of us have finally spoken out loud about God. And if he is still getting comfort from faith--then I can only say that God didn't answer Job either when he was pressed to the limit. (Ironically the Jews in the Holocaust looked to the book of Job--the man who never got a straight answer from God.)
Is it a comfort to find yourself just a regular unchurched member of suffering humanity? Or is it a greater comfort to believe in God and suffer without understanding God's reason for your suffering? Both are s**t storms.
Strong or not, he should go and TALK--Talk to someone that won't judge him a saint or a sinner for whatever comes out of is mouth.
And glad he could talk to you.
But depression and faith seem to have a real co-dependent relationship with each other-- I found/find it hard to develop a healthy perspective on a life after having thoroughly saturated my thoughts and actions with the ligatures of christian theism for nearly 60 years. All the best to him and to you.
