Posts by OnTheWayOut

21

"The last DAYS?"

by eyeuse2badub in

i was asked last sunday, after a meeting that i attended with my wife, by a good friend if i believed that these were indeed the "last days".

what prompted his question was the public talk given by a young man that i have known since he was 7 years old and is now an elder at 30.. the talk made mention several times that we are 'definitely' living in the "last days".

i assume that the expression "last days" was prominent in the outline.. i hope that he way i answered my friend's question jump started his thinking.

OnTheWayOut

....the end could really be thousands of years into the future. After all, a thousand years is but 1 day to jehober. And with all the "overlapping generations" (lol) and the "new light" (lol) yet to be revealed....

Great job with that.

Last days.
I try to lose them with a comparison. "Someone said once that they hate cut flowers because they are dying." I said that all flowers once bloomed are actually dying, so I see nothing wrong with enjoying them. So we are all in our own last days no matter how many days we each have, so I live for these days and do what I can to experience them now."

That's deep enough that they don't have anything to say usually.

9

Anti-JW movie on Netflix?

by Ray Frankz in

jw
friends

i'm watching the new netflix movie "come sunday".

it's one more film about a person who has turning point in life that demands the person to reevaluate his own faith and belief system.

in this case, the man is a petencostal bishop that gets very famous and has a big church preaching about salvation to heaven and punishment in hell.

OnTheWayOut

There have been a number of documentaries about cults. They tend to be made-for-television and most have had a small following. Leah Remini's series about Scientology was much bigger.

I think to break past a hesitancy to make a film where some large entity (Watchtower) could sue the filmmakers, we might see a film more along the lines of "The Master."

It was a fiction largely based on the founding of Scientology. When I saw it, I had to look up whether it was entirely fictional or not. It was entirely fictional.

But if public opinion continues to sway against groups that have allowed the covering up of child molestation in their past, then I could see a movie made that was directly anti-JW.

I think a huge problem with a big production movie meant to fill theaters with people would be that the Ray Franz story would have to be hugely over-dramatized to have such a following.

If it were me as a producer, and I was stuck with the Ray Franz story, I would see if I could switch it to a Fred Franz story. It takes us through much more interesting times prior to Ray's presence in New York Bethel and allows for a villain to later be shown as a broken man, dying but with his dissonance intact, and morphing into the Ray vs. Fred Franz story.

23

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if "Religion" had never reared it`s head.?

by smiddy3 in

can you imagine what the world of mankind would be like if their was never any concept of a god or religious beliefs ?.

for the love of me i can`t ,maybe i don`t have an imaginative mind equipped well enough to do so .. how about you guys ?

any takers ?.

OnTheWayOut

There is an episode (I actually think it is the second of a two-part episode) of SOUTHPARK called "GO GOD GO XII."

Skipping a long story, it essentially takes us to a future where religion is eradicated and war is being fought by 3 factions that argue over what is the most logical name for their denomination of atheism.

I think the point can be made that fighting over beliefs was embedded in mankind. If we didn't fight over "God," then we would have (and did) fight over land, oil, slavery, some issues.

25

Jesus—a real, historical person

by Ireneus in

jesus was a real and historical person (not the way jws or the rest of the people think him to be) because of the following historical facts:.

1) the fact that the most influential political establishment of that time (roman empire) was convinced that jesus’ name would sell to suit their political agenda (to promote slavery) shows that jesus was as historical as roman empire itself; hence they implanted slavery-friendly verses into the bible as though spoken by jesus (such as mathew 5:39, 41; 24:45 ..etc) this was in contrast to the real personality jesus really was—he was a man of courage, who ‘walked alone to do what is right if those invited refused to accompany him.’ when his family and disciples were fond of sleeping, his delight was to spend early morning hours alone, in meditation, with god to the extent he could say he was “one” with qualities of god.

(mark 1:35; john 8:1, 2; 10:30) such a person would naturally be too famous and too crowd-pulling against whom even the influential people were helpless even when they were whipped out of the temple which reminds us of “hollywood rambo style” merely because of his moral authority (not that he had any supernatural powers to perform miracles).. 2) similarly, emerging religion (apostate christianity) too knew they could misuse the name of jesus to serve its commercial agenda.

OnTheWayOut

I used to spend considerable time reading books that debated a reality of Jesus or a fiction come to life.
The arguments are stacked so high on both sides, with the fiction side suffering more from the fact that its advocates don't have anything at stake so they don't try as hard to extrapolate from theories and known facts.

The bottom line for me was that Paul's Christ was not ever described as a physical man who lived during his own life or just prior to it. Paul's Christ was easily a symbol for people, a myth that was magnified larger than life. And the gospels were added later to this larger-than-life myth.

In the end, I decided it doesn't really matter. If myths are based on a man or not, they are not reality. The son of God did not walk the earth and sacrifice himself for all of mankind. Miracles about Jesus are no more true than miracles about Buddha are true reality.

33

Do you miss that initial "high" ??

by stuckinarut2 in

do you remember the first time you found out "the truth about the truth"?.

yes, it was confronting, shocking and life altering.

yes it was hard to deal with.. but, along with that, many have said that they experienced a sense of thrill, euphoria, or joy when realising the facts about the religion that held us captive mentally and physically for so long.. it was liberating to learn some of the controversial teachings etc.

OnTheWayOut

Many say there was no "high" because they were angry instead.
But stop and try to answer this question- Did you feel a huge sense of "justification" for any anger or doubts or actions?

Could a sense of justification be like what others call a "high" ?

Just a thought.

12

JW Christians Are Supposed to be Good, BUT.....

by OnTheWayOut in

so, serving "the one true god" and being "in the truth" are supposed to make jw's better people.

they are bringing their "truth" to people and that probably makes them feel that they are good to "worldly" people.but they do it to "get their time in.

" they do it no longer in any life-saving mentality.

OnTheWayOut

Beautiful replies

days of future passed- Yes, they had a word for that kind of thing: corban.

carla- Exactly. They have become the Pharisees.

sir82- pretty much still the main point. Instead of wanting to help someone, they want to stay out of trouble.

The Fall Guy- good point. Being JW is about what they are doing for the organization NOW. The elderly are pretty much done, so the organization and its members are pretty much done with them.

Finkelstein- Such truth. I saw that in disaster relief. Take advantage of whatever is offered to everyone, but only help the members. .....and then only when they are members who help the congregation.

Vidiot- we will have to watch out for loyalists as the organization further falls apart.

33

Do you miss that initial "high" ??

by stuckinarut2 in

do you remember the first time you found out "the truth about the truth"?.

yes, it was confronting, shocking and life altering.

yes it was hard to deal with.. but, along with that, many have said that they experienced a sense of thrill, euphoria, or joy when realising the facts about the religion that held us captive mentally and physically for so long.. it was liberating to learn some of the controversial teachings etc.

OnTheWayOut

Oh man, I was so depressed about so much stuff. It was this giant boulder being lifted out of my vision allowing me to see that there was hope and more reasons to not be so depressed.

I remember some time later, meeting someone (AWAKENED AT GILEAD) who just discovered "the truth about the truth" for himself and he was even more excited about it than I ever was. He showed me some blatant examples of Watchtower misquotes and he was thrilled. So I was reminded then how exciting it first was.

12

JW Christians Are Supposed to be Good, BUT.....

by OnTheWayOut in

so, serving "the one true god" and being "in the truth" are supposed to make jw's better people.

they are bringing their "truth" to people and that probably makes them feel that they are good to "worldly" people.but they do it to "get their time in.

" they do it no longer in any life-saving mentality.

OnTheWayOut

So, serving "the one true God" and being "in the truth" are supposed to make JW's better people.
They are bringing their "truth" to people and that probably makes them feel that they are good to "worldly" people.

But they do it to "get their time in." They do it no longer in any life-saving mentality. They knock on doors when nobody answers and they stand near a cart that nobody walks up to.

They are supposed to support and encourage each other, but it seems that anything they do that they deem "good" becomes a competition among them. "My son is a Bethelite." "My vacations are spent building at Headquarters." "My husband is an elder." "I pioneer instead of seeking more money." YADDA YADDA YADDA!!!

JW's get a smug, superior attitude about themselves when comparing their worship to the "world." "THEY CELEBRATE PAGAN HOLIDAYS.....AND GET CAUGHT IN PATRIOTISM!!! THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN SO THEY LET CHILDREN HAVE CANDY ON A SATANIC HOLIDAY!!!" And it goes on and on and on. Instead of really wanting to help their own children understand stuff, they demonize it. Instead of really wanting to help their fellow man to understand stuff, they condemn them and talk about their imminent destruction.

I have been reading BEYOND BELIEF about Jenna Miscavige growing up as the niece of the leader of Scientology, and later leaving. Scientology has a deeper problem with turning other members in for breaking the rules, but it is definitely present among JW's. The fear that a member will be guilty of something for NOT turning someone in for something is prevalent, and that snitch/tattletale thing is way more important than actually helping someone. In Watchtower, the person turning someone in assumes the elders will help that person, but all the elders seem to be first about is getting a confession or proving guilt and punishing. Help is so secondary.

They say they want Witnesses to be able to think for themselves, but all they do is teach them to parrot the Watchtower and try to know what it says as the answer to any particular question. Instead of saying why THEY shun someone or THEY refuse to take blood or whatever, they answer that "I have learned that Jehovah God feels [the way Watchtower tells me] about the matter."

17

49th Anniversary of my PAROLE from Federal prison

by TerryWalstrom in

today is the 49th anniversaryof my parole from federal prison.

in french, "parole" means 'word of honor'.in effect, a prisoner promises the authorities they will be honorable.. in 1967, i violated the u.s. military training and service act.about 25,000 draft age americans simply ran away to canada.i did not run.

i stayed and gave my 'witness.".

OnTheWayOut

Thanks for sharing. And on this solemn anniversary, your shameless self promotion is acceptable.

31

We are giving too much power to the watchtower

by sinboi in

i am just 17. many of you here are much older than me.. i do feel that offering advice here is like teaching my father how to fuck.

but seriously, i do see the problem here.

we are focusing more on the problem than the solution.. i have been reading mind power books for quite some time.

OnTheWayOut

I am just 17. Many of you here are much older than me.
I do feel that offering advice here is like teaching my father how to fuck. But seriously, I do see the problem here. We are focusing more on the problem than the solution.

Often, we need the refreshing viewpoints of young ones. Sex for the father of a young adult or old teen may be good, but there's nothing like the passion of people just starting out. And we are not really talking about sex.

I am a bit of a pessimist due to a lack of results from my efforts to free my wife and mother, and from reading of similar outcomes. But I need reminders from young ones that my situation or that of some others is not always the case. I am reminded of another male elder with his entire family in who made great strides in waking up his family by remaining in the organization long enough to influence them. They are all out now. So reading suggestions from a young one are always welcome. Just don't be surprised if someone like me shoots down what you say because "we feel we know better." Not always true.

I find that many, perhaps most of us, have given too much power to Watchtower. ...and they did it so easily and willingly.

The pessimist in me will remind you that many cannot show their family how they are happier after leaving because their family totally shuns them. And sometimes that shunning is the very thing that makes them unhappy.

But otherwise, I wholeheartedly appreciate what you say and hope those of us that can show family how much better off we are, do so.

I have met many former JW's who put love for their family ahead of privileges and then eventually came out of the Watchtower because of the treatment they received for doing the right thing.