OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  16

  Will directing people to jw.org actually prove counter productive?

  by eyeslice2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a time when the society was very skeptical about the internet and the so-called lies and apostate information that was out there.

  it sort of was something to be avoided.

  over the past ten years, however, it seems they have taken to it with a passion.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Hey, in 12 years or so since I left, I have seen Jehovah's Witnesses go from growth through recruitment to basically abandoning any hope of growth at all. The carts that they put to the side of walkways and have JW's silently stand near are just for die-hard JW's to think they are still recruiting. Telling people to go to the internet is the same. People will virtually never even go to check out jwdotorg.
  
  Watchtower is willing to ride on it's current millions of members and hope for some retention through children. They have sold off millions upon millions of dollars worth of Brooklyn property at numbers way lower than they would have gotten 12 years ago at the height of real estate values.
  
  So the good news for me- I fully underestimated how fast such changes would occur. I guessed that Watchtower would eventually go away, but the reduction and the sale of Kingdom Halls is going way faster than I would ever have guessed. The lawsuits are incredible and making more headway in the United States than I could imagine.
  
  I still make the offer- I will help them pack their bags if the Governing Body are ready to make a run to some country in the tropics with no extradition.
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  18

  1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

  you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

  you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

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  OnTheWayOut

  You don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607BCE to 1914CE. You don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of Jehovah's Witnesses on the back of William Miller's teachings. You just need to know that Watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.
  
  You don't even need to fully understand the ridiculous methods that they did date setting from.
  
  Here's a really short version of what happened and all you really need to know-
  
  William Miller said that Jesus' Return would be in 1844. (See The Great Disappointment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment ) People who believed what he said were known as "Millerites." Jesus' return didn't happen. This return of Jesus was also known as his second advent, and believers came to be known as Adventists.

  Adventist Jonas Wendell suffered in his faith at the Great Disappointment, but later carried the same type of "Millerites" talk in a sermon where Wendell had picked the new date of 1873 or 1874 for Jesus' return (after studying Bible chronology and being wrong about 1868). 18 year old C. T. Russell heard Wendell in 1870 speak of such a date. Wendell had already published The Present Truth, or Meat in Due Season highlighting such dates. So Wendell invented those terms that would haunt the WT organization and morph into New Light and food at the proper time.
  
  Wendell died in August of 1873, probably confident that his 1873 to 1874 date was correct. When Jesus didn't appear as expected, Russell still believed it (or at least wanted to keep selling pamplets that explained it). He taught that Jesus must have returned invisibly, meaning that Jesus was ruling from Heaven starting in 1874. He taught that 40 years later, a literal application of how long a "generation" was, in 1914, Jesus would take power on the earth. That would mean an end to the Gentile Times in 1914 and an end to the last days- destruction and death and stuff.
  
  Because World War One (coincidentally) started in 1914, Russell used that as a sign that he was correct in his complicated doctrines. He was already good at reinventing understanding rather than admitting he was wrong.

  ---

  All the rest is just calculated backwards- the stuff about 607 BCE and the 2520 years and the Seven Times.
  All of it was just made to fit that understanding. When things didn't work out as planned (again) the people in charge just reinvented the understandings and adjusted the math to fit whatever they wanted it to fit to sell more pamphlets/magazines/books. The end of the last days became the beginning of the last days. 1874 was forgotten. They just kept changing the end-date. They even made terrible errors and just changed the math to fit- they forgot there was no "Year Zero" and changed 606 BCE to 607 BCE.
  They kept 1914 because it was so well-known to the followers and they already said "See, we were right" when World War One started. Everything about Nebuchadnezzar and the destruction/building of the temple was just made to fit the math. You can find anything if you work backwards. It's like writing a Sherlock Holmes story. Just work backwards from what a great detective would expect to find and make him look like a genius in discovering those things.
  
  It is so unnecessary to understand the ridiculous theories of WT's present understanding when you can see what it was based on and how it changed to suit their need to get a following and sell pamphlets/magazines/books. It saddens me that I bothered to understand it at one time.
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  50

  Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

  by sweetyj in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we already know how jws will respond ( on a pole).

  but i found an article that talks about jws views on how jesus died.

  i didn't know that there was a time when jws accepted the cross unlike now.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Asking "Did Jesus die this way or that way?" stifles the argument that Jesus existed at all.
  You presuppose it isn't all a fairy tale.
  
  "Did the elves approach Santa Claus to make toys or did Santa go to them?"
  
  
  
  
  
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  11

  Why do JWs reject the 587/586 BCE date?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i do not want this to develop into another discussion on "607 bce date is wrong".. when the a-e section of "aid to bible understanding" was published, i was able to show that the article on "chronology" employed deceptive techniques when it cited its sources.

  whenever i provided jws the evidence in print, it was like water off a duck's back.

  "the brothers in brooklyn have done all the research, write to them", they would tell me.. i soon recognised that the jws followed the wts because of who it claimed to be.. it became clear that another, stronger force existed--the impact of shunning with the loss of close friendships and with the impact on their family relationships.. one could only stand by with concern thinking of the impact of the cognitive dissonance and observing the regular changes requiring lock-step obedience.

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  OnTheWayOut

  At one time, 1914 was the end of the last days and Armageddon was to arrive. Originally, 1914 was 40 years, the then-current application of a literal 'generation,' past 1874. That was when the last days began until they changed it. They put a lot of effort into changing it, what with re-inventing everything they said.
  
  So with so much invested in 607BCE being used to prove 1914 was 'the beginning' of the last days, of course your average JW won't even be interested in some crazy apostate lies that insist that 607 is wrong. "Watchtower chose it because it was so clearly well-established as fact. They told us so."
  
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  9

  Steven Hassan has a new book...

  by Queequeg in

  1. social
  2. current

  steven hassan's new book..

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  OnTheWayOut

  And now this? Trump is using mind control?

  
  I know it's hard to imagine because Trump is such a moron. But so are those of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. It seems that even morons can do the bidding of others smarter than themselves, in the case of the Governing body, those smarter have already passed on.
  
  So I think you should wait for the book before you condemn the very idea.
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  62

  Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

  this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

  it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

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  OnTheWayOut

  This is such a nice proper place for such a debate on such a big subject.
  No disrespect to Robert Shapiro, professor emeritus of chemistry at New York University, but he is one person with one point of view that is different from many other point of views on his specific subject.
  
  And as mentioned, evolution and abiogenesis are two different discussions.
  
  Man is in his infancy of understanding the big questions and their answers. The vastness of outer and inner space are just being barely reached. There were so many scientists in the past who swore that it was impossible for so many things to exist or occur- and so many were wrong. But that's okay- we learn and move on.
  
  I stick with something more basic- WE KNOW THE GOD OF THE BIBLE DOESN'T EXIST. So much of science has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that the life on this planet is older than the Bible would make it, that it has evolved in a way contrary to the Bible, and that things like the great worldwide flood could not have occurred. Any other "God" has not made it clear that he/she/it does actually exist, so until he/she/it contacts us, we can assume they are not there (or don't want us spending all our time worshiping them).
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  19

  William sisters....what’s that all about?

  by Theonlyoneleft in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok... so the william sisters have in the past spoken openly about their faith by saying they are jehovah witnesses.

  but do they attend regular meetings?

  door to door ministry?

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  OnTheWayOut

  Jehovah's Witnesses.
  It's a cult like Scientology, but for famous BLACK people.
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  17

  Why doesn’t the Governing Body hold debates to asses the qualifications of a new GB member?

  by I believe in overlapping in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the members have no idea what qualifies someone has to be a member of the governing body.

  members know absolutely nothing about new members of the governing body who are appointed.

  kenneth cook was the last appointed governing body member in 2018..

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  OnTheWayOut

  The GB is not going to tell you or anyone how they pick a new member.

  
  

  jehober picks the gb members. Every jw knows that!
  just saying!

  I gotta echo these thoughts.
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  144

  If You Criticize A Person of Color Are You A Racist?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  seriously, it’s getting to a point that you can’t make a negative comment about someone without being charged as a racist, homophobe or sexist!

  if you criticize a female, you are obviously sexist.

  if you criticize someone who happens to be gay, you must hate homosexuals.

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  OnTheWayOut

  14 pages, wow- this is a charged subject.
  Okay, I just red Minimus' original post and haven't read the 14 pages. Let me say my piece and then when I can, I will compare notes.

  A man can criticize a woman without being accused of being sexist, or a straight man can criticize a gay man without being accused of hating homosexuals, etc. etc.

  .....but you really have to have a fair reputation with the group or individuals involved before you do that. If that group is co-workers or family that knows you, you may well be established as a non-hater or even a supporter of that particular issue, but are critical of something that has nothing to do with that issue.
  
  If you are having an argument on the internet or with strangers or in front of a news camera- FORGET IT!!!! You will be accused.
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  15

  Shall I disassociate myself too? I’m the only one left now.

  by Theonlyoneleft in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  please bear with me as this might be a long one,.

  the question above has been circulating my mind for a while and i’ve been wondering if there’s anyone that thought the same or done it.. we normally associate shunning and disassociation with jehovah’s witnesses that are normally baptised, but my situation is a reversed one.. i was a bible student that left a long time ago on my own free will, never shunned never ostracised by my jw’s siblings and their families.

  the years have passed and situations have arisen that has made me uncomfortable of the knowledge of particular outcomes within my siblings and families.. i’ve been thinking to stay away from my family( living in a different country ), as i don’t want to be preached on or feel out of touch and segregated by their opinions of me and my family.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I agree with Slimboyfat above. No sense in actually burning the bridge. You can distance yourself from them as you want to, but you just never know what the future may bring. It may be that they have some dire circumstances where they want to turn to you. (Hey, you never know.)
  
  If that never happens, it's pretty much the same result as DA'ing yourself. But if it could happen, they won't turn to you unless that old bridge is still there.