OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  38

  What changes would stabilize JW membership?

  by StarryNight9 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've seen many topics about how things are changing or might be changing in jw doctrine/culture.

  some have extrapolated how those changes would result in declining jw membership.

  i'm curious to know what changes others think would stabilize those numbers.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I am not a fan of questions like "What changes would stabilize JW membership?"
  
  It's like asking, "Was Jesus the son of God or an extraordinary man of faith?"
  There is so much more that could be asked about whether he existed at all or was something entirely different from those choices.
  
  Why would we even want a stable JW membership? I suppose then it could be less cult-like and more mainstream. Then get rid of it and let the members find a mainstream church to go to.
  
  The Catholic Church is in a huge decline over its scandals. But they are so huge and banked so much money, that they will somehow, most likely, weather this storm and reinvent themselves after they sift out so many members. Couldn't that be true of Watchtower also?
  
  While I pity the shunned, missing out on family because of a stupid cult, and I wish that shunning would go away, and I would hope their blood ban stops and people stop needlessly dying, I otherwise wish that Watchtower keeps the active members as miserable as ever in their getting their hours in and wasting away weekends at conventions. It might be the only reason people decide to stop being active witnesses.
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  14

  Disaster Relief Funds

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if the need for relief is beyond what the congregations in the area can provide, the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses arranges to supply what is needed.

  [...] since the work is performed by unpaid volunteers, the funds that are allocated go toward actual relief, not administrative expenses.

  - jw site.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Disaster Relief is my biggest pet peeve with Watchtower.
  
  All agencies have administrative costs, and some agencies have way too much overhead with celebrity and high paid spokespeople. Watchtower is not as efficient and effective as the Red Cross, but they easily convince the members that they are the absolute best at disaster relief.
  
  So they are not really high paid people and the actual people who go to the disaster are mostly unpaid volunteers. But Watchtower has honed their disaster relief begging to get money for non-relief funds. They ask members to stop donating "stuff" and they ask that they only donate money to the worldwide work, and tell them not to earmark their checks toward the specific disaster relief. Just put more money in the slush fund and Watchtower will decide how much to give to the disaster.
  
  Further, Watchtower will arrange for connected members to be the suppliers and contractors for the disaster, and of course they are able to charge for their equipment and materials.
  
  Hey, is Watchtower better or worse than Wounded Warrior Project? I could list the problems with that organization about lavish spending on big events and airfare. But Watchtower uses something that Wounded Warrior or the Red Cross don't have available to them- convincing people from the pulpit that God is running their charity, and by-the-way, telling them it's not even a "charity."
  
  
  
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  21

  Taking children out on the ministry

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can i ask your views on taking children out on the ministry?

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  do you have any experiences you can share of things you as a child/your children/grandchildren have witnessed on the ministry that they shouldn't have?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  A child has not decided on his/her own research that Watchtower has "the truth."
  It is pure indoctrination. And it is difficult for them and they hate it. It leads to anxiety over a schoolmate answering the door. It opens them to dangers when working with other adults that could be predators that are experienced at winning them over and/or isolating them.
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  69

  JW's Would Stay With The Org Even If 1914 Was Dropped

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i asked the question on quora: .

  if the governing body abandoned the 1914 teaching, would you leave jehovah's witnesses or you would remain a member regardless?.

  https://www.quora.com/if-the-governing-body-abandoned-the-1914-teaching-would-you-leave-jehovahs-witnesses-or-you-would-remain-a-member-regardless.

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  OnTheWayOut

  The organization grew when 1914 wasn't what they said it would be, when the prophets were not resurrected in 1925, when the end did not come in 1975 and all those other years, SO YEAH- they would mostly stay.
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  20

  Who stands to benefit from the JW scam

  by cognitivedizzy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  guys, i've always wondered about this ,.

  all the money grab,selling, consolidation of kh, real estate scam , who is the one who benefits from this elaborate scam, what's the deal ?

  who is the mastermind, do the gb or whoever really runs the show really believe what they sell.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Just because Watchtower doesn't have a current L.Ron Hubbard character doesn't mean that nobody benefits from the scam.
  
  The men at the top worked in the trenches and slaved for the organization as pioneers of some sort. Then they got their golden ticket. It may not be quite the same as being billionaires, but being likened to JW rockstars is better for them than walking away would be. Ray Franz could write, and he wrote some books. Still, he didn't make money hand over fist. The current lot in the Ivory Tower are not able to write nearly as well as Ray, and they know it.
  
  So traveling on someone else's dime, staying in hotels when they travel (they don't stay in some lowly publisher's second bedroom), having people practically worship them- that's pretty good for them. Plus, someone cleans behind them and they get to award lawyers and realtors and contractors big paychecks and have them grovel at their feet.
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  12

  Letter to elders: Say what brothers?

  by pixel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to all bodies of elders .

  re: audio at sign-language meetings .

  dear brothers: .

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  OnTheWayOut

  Oh, it sounds genuine to me. It's a way of saying that the "hearing" should benefit by hearing the wonderful sounds from Watchtower produced videos. It's stroking their own egos. Plus, they just don't get it how the deaf feel about these "wonderful hearing people taking care of them." Many of them wish the congregations would just be made up entirely of deaf people.
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  19

  Venting, Wow, found out just how indoctrinated my wife is

  by goingthruthemotions in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just had to share this, tonight we had a heated conversation about the religion.

  she said everything they teach is 100% true and any mistakes are cleaned up and corrected, that the payouts for the child abuse is not an issue even if its taken from donations.

  because, she believe 100% the org knows what its doing.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Sad to read. But I imagine it's fairly normal for many JW's still.
  My own wife and mother and mother-in-law would probably be pretty close to the same, adding that any payouts for child abuse were caused by members who are not true JW's, then they would not look into the cases as to how Watchtower was complicit
  
  I was there for my best friend when he was DF'ed, but years later when he is "spiritually strong" again, he wasn't there for me when I was fading, not even DF'ed. It's because he's just as heavily indoctrinated as your wife.
  
  It's not much comfort to me either, that many people are PIMO. I find some comfort in that, but I am way more hopeful for my own wife than for others. But I have to accept that some are falling away as a hopeful sign.
  
  Maybe something will crack your wife's perfect "faith." You never know.
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  50

  Overwhelmed

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone else feel overwhelmed on what to believe?.

  i've been doing lots of research on beliefs, evolution, creationism but i feel no further forward about what i truly believe.

  for example i looked at the fossil record and tiktaalic and thought great it proves a lot but then i've seen counter arguments on youtube of people basically saying its a load of rubbish and doesn't prove anything.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Perry:
  My basic premise is that while all people are equal, ideas are not equal. And, while we cannot go back in time and see for ourselves what happened, we can try to ground certain conclusions with things we know to be facts (premises) now. Things like:

  1. All life comes from previous life

  2. All information comes from a mind

  3. All books have authors

  Etc.

  A Transcendent God (one outside of our 3 dimensional universe) conclusion doesn't contradict the premises I listed above.
  
  See, there is an example of self-imposed nonsense. Perry feels he needs to know and demonstrate that the creator exists, so he falls for the "outside of our 3 dimensional universe" theory. That really means "I have no answers, so my god is exempt." I don't point this out to poke fun at Perry, but rather to demonstrate that you are better off to accept "I don't know, and that's okay."
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  31

  Bill Cosby Gets Sentence Of 3 to 10 Years!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wow!

  i thought he might get less than 2 years incarceration..

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  OnTheWayOut

  To me, the conviction was the victory. A short term sentence is okay with me. He is sick and would cost taxpayers more money to be locked up a long time. Let him pay for his own medical stuff.
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  18

  I'm considering putting off my leaving

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just wanted to share with you the thoughts that i've had lately.. my plan was to get a job, become independent and then leaving the org throughout this year 2018. i'm going to achieve the first step in a matter of weeks, the second one soon afterwards but maybe i will wait a little longer for the last one.. one year ago a friend of mine was reinstated.

  we weren't very close friends back then, although we got along well.

  but, since no many jws in my town want to hang out with him (because of his being a former disfellowshipped), we started to talk and go out more often and in a matter of half a year we've become very close friends, like brothers.

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  OnTheWayOut

  All are free to do as they see fit. It's really a matter of what you can stand that will guide you.
  
  I lingered for years within the organization, but I wasn't convinced it wasn't the truth. Once I knew what I needed to know for sure, that it wasn't the truth, I was completely physically out within 9 months. But in my case, I just couldn't waste time in that organization and I didn't care to hold on to local "friends." I did feel bad that I lost my best friend (who lived 500 miles from me) over this, but I had hoped better from him before that happened.