most of the stories have been handed down from earlier traditions. Notice the absence of satan until after the Jews returned from Babylon. No virgin birth stories until after Greek influence.
drawcad_1
JoinedPosts by drawcad_1
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Is the story of Adam and eve first introduced in the bible ..or BEFORE TH
by gumby inis the story of adam and eve first introduced in the bible..or before the bible
in the late 1920's a syrian farmer plowing a field on a hill turned up a strange clay tablet.
a french archaeological team went to investigate.
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Need a little help on 607 586/587....
by undercover ini remember reading somewhere a quote from a wts publication that more or less said that the bible was wrong when it came to one of the regnal years or how many years a certain king had ruled.
something like that anyway(i've got to start copying and pasting or bookmarking or something).
somehow if you take the society at it's word about 607 it creates a problem with the rulership length or starting rulership date of somebody and in one of their publications it actually says something about that time period having to be incorrect.
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drawcad_1
Scholar
You said that I could interpret Jeremiah in either Johnson’s ‘hypothesis’ or the Societies. Which might also be said that I could interpret it in to allow for 587/586BCE and agree with all other evidence or I could interpret by the Societies ‘hypothesis’ . I think that I will go along with the known facts. You still haven’t given me any scripture to show me the length that the destruction was. Please post these with the book and verse.
Gamaliel
A very good post with some good points. When he says that this issue has been covered in some journals, I wonder if they weren’t printed by the watchtower.
I think I see what you mean when you say that he knows there is no evidence to support 607BCE, but it sure is hard supporting your faith on a site full of apostates….
…..that as logansrun keeps pointing out, is not the place that a good witness is supposed to be. I wonder if he can report these hours. How long he stays logged in, or just the time it takes to reply. Maybe, if he can show that his Internet connection is for the sole reason of preaching, then he can write off the expenses as a religious contribution.
Scholar likes to think of non-scholars as below him and therefore unable to understand the more important issues. It is his way of projecting his insecurities on his attackers.
This has turned into a very good debate. Thank you everyone.
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Need a little help on 607 586/587....
by undercover ini remember reading somewhere a quote from a wts publication that more or less said that the bible was wrong when it came to one of the regnal years or how many years a certain king had ruled.
something like that anyway(i've got to start copying and pasting or bookmarking or something).
somehow if you take the society at it's word about 607 it creates a problem with the rulership length or starting rulership date of somebody and in one of their publications it actually says something about that time period having to be incorrect.
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drawcad_1
Scholar
You state that the society calculates the 607 date from scholarly and ‘biblical’ sources. What is the biblical source that states the destruction will be for 70 years? If you tell me that it is the prophesy in Jeremiah, don’t you mean servitude as it plainly states. If you read it without the veil of watchtower reasoning it does not state how long the destruction will be. If there are other sources for this time period, that are biblical, please inform me.
I guess it was a real eye opener for you that no artifacts have been found with the date 607BCE or 587BCE on them. A word of warning ‘ don’t hold your breath.’ But there are definite links between the reigns of Babylonian kings. If you want to hold the 537BCE date you must agree with a 587/586 BCE date. All of the artifacts that are systematically discredited by the watchtower when applied to the 587/586 date are surprisingly very accurate and used by them to support a 537BCE date.
You call Carl Johnson our leader from a very ignorant standpoint. As I had mentioned earlier on, I have cross-referenced all of the data that I have read. When I was told by the watchtower that Josephus had said the destruction lasted for 70 years I was astounded to find out, from looking in one of his translations, that he also mentioned 50 years in his later books, to make up for his earlier mistakes. When I was told of VAT 4956 pointing to the dates of Nebachadnezar’s ruling period, I had a JW use a celestial computer program to confirm it. If you say that COJ is our leader then you are wrong, he is a link in the information that we have used to confirm a lie that has been told to the R&F.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO AND TALK TO YOUR LEADER “MR. FURULI” AND ASK HIM TO HURRY UP WITH HIS BOOK, SINCE YOU ARE TIRED OF MAKING WILD CLAIMS WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT. Once, this work has been published will you believe every word that is written, or will you do any research to check its validity, or will you just believe because you are told to.
In your signature line I think you should include a big portion of BS to go with the BA and MA.
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Virgin Birth Claim Disproves Biblical Inspiration
by AlanF inmany bible believers claim that the old testament contains over 300 so-called messianic prophecies.
however, a careful look at such claims shows that at least 80% of these have absolutely no connection with jesus, or with events beyond what the ancient writer was concerned with.. take, for example, the famous example of the supposed virgin birth of jesus.
this is based on the text of matthew 1:18-23 (nasb):18 now the birth of jesus christ was as follows: when his mother mary had been betrothed to joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the holy spirit.
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drawcad_1
Definitely a Greek addition to the bible. The Hebrews of that time did not belive in virgin births.
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Need a little help on 607 586/587....
by undercover ini remember reading somewhere a quote from a wts publication that more or less said that the bible was wrong when it came to one of the regnal years or how many years a certain king had ruled.
something like that anyway(i've got to start copying and pasting or bookmarking or something).
somehow if you take the society at it's word about 607 it creates a problem with the rulership length or starting rulership date of somebody and in one of their publications it actually says something about that time period having to be incorrect.
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drawcad_1
Hi scholar,
It seems that the question is quite obvious. ‘Why does the Society stick with 607 and where do they get support for this date?’
I have been very interested in any answer to this question that the watchtower might come up with. The one that was given in the Knowledge book is just another ‘believe this because we said’ answer, that once again shows their control over the R&F. I have asked on numerous occasions for a list of the regnal periods of the kings during that time. If the Hebrew Kings are in harmony with a 607 BCE date then why are all of the Babylonian King & Egyptian lists in harmony with a 587/586 BCE date for the destruction? I have been reading, and cross referencing all of the data (I don’t want to be seen as falling into Satan’s trap of just believing apostate literature), for the time period between Nebuchadnezar and Cyrus and would love to see the how these are found to support 607BCE without negating their usefulness for 537BCE.
The evidence to support 587/586 comes from Ptolemy’s king list (which was only added onto by Ptolemy and not started by him, some of the data was compiled contemporary to the events), the Uruk king list (which was contemporary), the house of Egibi (a mortgage company that secured loans during that time and recorded all documents by the year of the king), Josephus (admittedly not contemporary, but in ‘Against Apion I’ admits to 50 years of destruction), many Babylonian lunar eclipse documents (that are far more accurate than the Watchtower would like you to believe), and did I mention the Egyptian cross references that the Bible gives to us.
Seedy3
These are some good sites and ones that I would recommend. One point that has always puzzled me is the fact that the R&F are not told of this controversy, and despite their information control, it is a big controversy. They take great pride in pointing out when an Apostate writes some literature that is untrue about their organization. But when it comes to the 607 vs. 587 debate there is complete silence.
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When Cowards Run a Religion
by metatron inonce upon a time, judge rutherford stood before a crowd in madison square garden.
the audience included many catholic action types who could have easily included an assassin.
the judge may have been a lot of things (well,..... drunk, ego-manical, adulterous, and dishonest, actually) but he wasn't a coward.
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drawcad_1
Now, would the kind gentleman be explaining to the judge that he works for Satan.
The next page goes on to say that Judges should be aware that the highest power is Jehovah, and that everyone is accountable to him.
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A Big Canadian Apology
by jgnat ini got this as an e-mail joke today, my apologies if you have heard it already.... on behalf of canadians everywhere i'd like to offer an apology to the united states of america.
we haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, i am truly sorry.. i'm sorry we called george bush a moron.
he is a moron but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out.
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drawcad_1
the truth hurts
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Do You Have Any Elder Fantasies???
by minimus insphere gave a comment on my thread about wanting to beat someone up and he/she said that they had elder fantasies.
do you have any elder fantasies that you would like to share?
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drawcad_1
Everytime I saw this one elder go to the front to give a talk. I would imagine him pulling his bottom lip up over his head and completely swallowing himself.
I always fantasized that an elder would see the hypocracy of the religion that they were trying to teach me, and that the answer “it will be revealed at a later date” was not good enough. Or, that if you could not answer my question then what the heck would a study accomplish.
I wished one Elder would be able to see that we were laughing at him while he was at the podium and not his lame jokes.
Just a few Elder fanatsies.
Blondie: There was one Elder that always had to go out of town to find any kind of work. He was very talented and there were plenty of good jobs in our area. But, he had to go where the "real money was". When he came back we would all hear how he was able to witness to his fellow employees, but he didn't bring back a big warchest of money. I always wondered what those trips were about.
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drawcad_1
JH,
What was the temperature this morning?
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-1-03 WT Study
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 3/1/03 wt study
january 15, 2003 wt.
how strong is your faith?.
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drawcad_1
Blondie
I love the reviews of the watchtower literature. It gives some good feedback to their constant drivel, and goes into some real good research. There are points that you have brought up (watchtower trinity, partial texts) that I probably would not have thought of. At least now I can go to the meetings and give an occasional smart*** answer to one of the questions, and then wait for my counsel.