under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  143

  Your View On BREASTFEEDING In Public

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last night on the news a woman was told by a store manager that she could not in public breastfeed her child.

  she and her husband were quite offended and complained to the company's main offices.

  they are now looking into this situation.. what's your opinion?

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  under_believer

  Discretion shouldn't be required. Forcing women to cover up with blankets so that they don't offend you? Come on.
  
  To anyone who is offended by the sight of public nursing:
  
  Yes, we get that you are descended from Puritans. Yes, we understand that you live in and were raised in a country with a ton of hangups about sex and gender. Yes, we realize that seeing a relatively small patch of skin, one which is not reproductively functional and is not genitalia, offends you and shakes you to your very core. Yes, we know that you are sexist and believe that even though it's perfectly ok for men to walk around with no shirts on, it is a terrible sin if women do. We realize that you feel that it is okay for you to judge other people and decide for them what is right and wrong.
  
  However, I call your attention to the fact that it is now 2007, and that regarding your fear of boobs, most of the other countries in the world have either moved on (Europe) or never went there in the first place (Africa). And if you are offended by the sight of a mother feeding her baby in the way nature (or God, if you like) specifically intends, I wonder if you are also offended by the sight of a farmer milking his cow? By the sight of a dog or pig suckling her litter? By the Animal Planet when they show whales feeding their young? Do these things cause you to purse your lips and shake your head in disapproval? You realize that every time you drink a glass of milk, either a human hand or a piece of steel stroked a nipple to produce that glass?
  
  Perhaps you'd like to continue down the road of modesty. There are a number of countries in the world that you could look to for really good examples of female modesty. Saudi Arabia comes to mind, as does Iran. Afghanistan was holding up the torch for a while, until they were invaded. Why stop at breasts?
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  31

  I never have done right by you...

  by Sparkplug in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in talking to my mom the other day (who is doing so well btw) she turned to me and said straight and as sane as can be, "i have never done right by you, don't do as i have done to you to you kids.

  " she got teary eyed and i changed the subject fast because i did not know how to take it nor could i talk with the big lump in my throat.

  i have known this my whole life, and i don't even speak it as plain as she has spoken it, but hearing out of her mouth as she sits in her wheelchair and knowing she means it from her heart and from pure love, well it messed me up a bit.

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  under_believer

  Something sort of similar happened to me about a year ago, now, with my mother. Someday I'll post about it.
  
  It was only a brief moment in time, and then she went back to being a superhero JW, but that brief moment meant a lot to me.
  
  Congratulations.
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  18

  Is being a Jehovahs Witness sometimes a good thing..............

  by fifi40 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to explain this thread i need to tell a sad and horrific story about someone that was once a friend...............for the sake of privacy i will refer to her as carol.. i met carol in the about 1990. i was not a jw (had left when i was 16 and unbaptised).

  i was suffering with panic attacks, i think for many reasons but mainly because i had recently lost my dad and took it very hard.

  i lived with my then boyfriend, who later became my husband in a town in south yorkshire.

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  under_believer

  Your story about "Carol" is heartbreaking.
  
  I have to point out, though, that "Carol's" story is what happened to her AS A WITNESS. She was a Witness when she met you. For all I know (your story doesn't say) it was as a JW child that she suffered abuse. The Witnesses disfellowshipped her. Her life then spiraled out of control, as it does for many disfellowshipped people who've been deprived of the very anchor of their lives.
  
  For "Carol," it seems that being a Jehovah's Witness was a very bad thing. If she'd never been in contact with them I would bet her life would have been a lot happier.
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  174

  Gun control logic

  by Gregor in

  1. social
  2. current

  the v tech shooter bought his guns legally.

  gun control laws don't stop this kind of determined killer anywhere in the world.

  the defenseless victims couldn't carry a gun legally on campus if they had one.

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  under_believer

  RE: The Constitution
  
  Yes, the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Let us put aside the fact that it is absolutely idiotic to argue that the express aim of this Amendment was not to ensure the existence of a well-regulated militia. Let us instead think about the fact that the Bill of Rights was written, by men, in 1798. It was not holy writ; it is not the Ten Commandments. It was a set of political opinions penned by a bunch of guys who had a very express point to make against what amounted to 18th-century Libertarians (the anti-Federalists.)
  
  Is the Bill of Rights a good thing? Sure. It's survived to this point, not because it was somehow a set of original thoughts, but because it is a very solid document based on many antecedents, such as the Magna Carta and the English Bill of Rights. Nevertheless we need to stop regarding the Constitution as though it was some kind of sacred divinely-inspired text.
  
  It was intended to be a living document. Circumstances have changed since 1798. The American culture is a million miles away from what it was then, as is the available technology.
  
  So I will say again, yes, the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, but if we wanted to, we could amend the Constitution again and change that fact, or make it more specific. We don't need to say "Second Amendment, end of story, have a nice day." Received wisdom = bad. Questioning, thinking for yourself, looking at available evidence = good.
  
  More later.
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  10

  "A Tremendous Teaching Tool!"

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the above is the title of the "article" on the back of the april 2007 awake!

  magazine.

  what follows is the body of the "article.

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  under_believer

  The above is the title of the "article" on the back of the April 2007 Awake! magazine. What follows is the body of the "article."
  
  **********
  That is what a full-time minister of Jehovah's Witnesses in Panama wrote regarding /What Does the Bible Really Teach?/--a colorfully illustrated, 224-page book now being widely used in Bible study. "It is unbelievably concise, coherent, and convincing," he wrote. "The innovative way references and appendixes are employed instantly encourages investigation."
  A Bible teacher in Missouri, U.S.A., observed: "I love the simply manner in which it is written. The progression of subjects is presented in the most logical manner I have ever seen." As soon as the /Bible Teach/ book became available, the teacher took it to a woman who had previously tried to study the Bible but had become discouraged.
  "She had not finished reading the first chapter," the teacher related, "when she called to tell me how much she was enjoying it." The student said that she felt as though the book were written just for her and that she wanted to resume her Bible study. The teacher noted that after they had finished studying the first ten chapters together, the student's joy over what she was learning was absolutely delightful to see.
  Although the /Bible Teach/ book has been available for less that two years, over 50 million copies have already been printed in more than 150 languages. You may request a copy by filling in the accompanying coupon and mailing it to the address provided or to an appropriate address on page 5 of the magazine.
  **********
  
  They've always been like this. I used to buy into it in the past. This is propaganda of a particularly tawdry sort. Note the use of hyperbole--exclamation points, superlatives like "unbelievable," "innovative," "logical." Note how vague the account is of who exactly they are quoting. Why do they say "Bible teacher?" Why aren't they specific about it being a Witness?
  
  Note also the self-aggrandizement they heap on themselves in the last paragraph--we are so RAD because we have shat this thing out in 150 languages!
  
  And have you ever heard of ANY religion sing the praises of their own literature in the way? Don't most Christian religions save text like this (probably better written) for the Bible? And not some simplistic, fourth-grade-reading-level, deceptive, incomplete "Bible study aid?"
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  30

  If SATAN could offer you something desireable, would you accept it?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if it was possible for satan to offer you something desireable, knowing that god wouldn't approve of it, would you accept it anyways.. now, if you don't believe in god, you won't believe in satan either so this question doesn't apply to you..

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  under_believer

  If Satan existed as described by the body of Christian belief, no. I would not. It would be making a deal with the Devil, and we know how those turn out.
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  64

  Any current Good Standing JW, posting here?

  by NotaNess in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was wondering if there are any current regular posters here that are still active , but are mentally inactive and don't believe all the bull anymore, and are just going through the motions to keep their life with friends and family together.. i realize this might be a posting that will probably get 0 replies, but.......

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  under_believer

  I'm in good standing but considered inactive because of no field service for over a year. Still give talks (for now), and attend about 50% of the meetings.
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  15

  The many ways Jehovah's Witnesses harm children

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was talking with my therapist this morning and i made the comment "i guess i don't mind if she is a witness as long as it doesn't harm the kids.

  " this got me thinking about all the ways that being raised as witnesses harms or can harm children.

  1) teaches children to have an air of superiority regarding other human beings.

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  under_believer

  Was talking with my therapist this morning and I made the comment "I guess I don't mind if she is a Witness as long as it doesn't harm the kids." This got me thinking about all the ways that being raised as Witnesses harms or can harm children.
  
  1) Teaches children to have an air of superiority regarding other human beings.
  2) Teaches a siege mentality about the evil, horrible world where children feel like the world is out to get them.
  3) Superstition regarding demons and Satan
  4) Sets kids up for teasing and ridicule because of no holidays, no flag salute, and constant pressure to "informal witness" at school. This feeds back into #2.
  5) Often Witness kids miss out on cultural touchstones of their generation--cartoons, movies, music, etc.
  6) Heavy discouragement to go to secondary education. This leaves adult Witnesses ignorant, often unable to properly provide for themselves and their families, and unable to reach their full potential.
  7) No blood transfusions, of course.
  8) The "two witnesses" rule raises the likelihood that pedophiles will go unpunished and abuse again.
  9) Families are often torn apart by the disfellowshipping arrangement. There is no overestimating the ill effect this kind of turmoil can have on children.
  10) Independent thinking is heavily discouraged, meaning that many Witnesses grow up without the tools to question what they're being taught or told--whether by the Society or others.
  11) The Society's primary motivator is guilt, institutional, grassroots-enforced, top-down guilt. I do not know a single Witness or ex-Witness that doesn't have serious issues with guilt. It is just not healthy to be raised with constant guilt.
  
  That's everything I can think of off the top of my head--anyone have anything to add?
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  28

  Percentage of JW's that are undercover?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think?

  it seems like a lot are there so they won't lose family and friends - are in good standing but don't actually believe.

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  under_believer

  "Huge percentage, I'd say. If you're looking for an actual number, I'd think around 75-80%."
  
  Oh brother.
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  62

  Words Jehovers Witnesses Pronounce wrong...

  by vomit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehover being the most obvious.

  why was there a group in every hall that pronounced some words like a bad english accent.

  also why is it pretty universal, i.e.

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  under_believer

  I've heard the "Jerhovah" pronunciation, it was a Bethelite at a district convention one year and he went on and on and said "Jerhovah" about a million times.
  
  There was this brick of a man in one hall I went to that kept saying "jift" for "gist." "Brothers and sisters, are we getting the jift of what this scripture is trying to say?"