Posts by dozy

16

The future of the Watchtower Society

by mickygrey in

jw
friends

i left way back in 2002, seems a long time ago now and i haven't really kept up with any developments since.. i've kept one ear open and noticed recently there is talk of the wt being investigated over the sex abuse cover ups, but over the years this story has come in and out of the news.. what is everybody's predictions as to the future of the borg?

i know what most people want to happen, but realistically, are we just looking at certain elements being hit because of the restructuring they did a few years ago to protect from this very thing?

looking further ahead, you'd like to think that more people would wake up?

dozy

I'm with Simon's analysis above on this. I think they will just continue to amble along with moderate growth overall - probably already in long term decline in most first world countries but more than offset by the third world. Financially they have ring fenced most of their assets in "independent" holding and service companies ( such as the IBSA and Kingdom Halls Trust ) so they will be safe from any major legal claims.

I guess the main issue they have is the none-arrival of Armageddon - this is a religion with a big sell by date on its ass ( unlike the Mormons , for example. ) . Admittedly they have got away with it since 1879. They have fudged this for decades with recent changes to the "generation doctrine" , for example , which has bought them another 30 years or so but eventually they need to find some kind of new work-around solution - maybe 1914 ultimately will be ditched.

18

Before cutting my hair my witness barber had to check with Bethel...really? Not a cult?

by Witness 007 in

i was balding and grey so i asked my witness barber friend to "just shave it all off" many brothers were doing the comb over which looked friggin stupid.

but oh no in the 1990's this was rebellious he had to call a brother we knew at bethel to see if it was ok. we got his ok to go ahead but at the time i could help thinking about the no beard rule and how controlled and cultish we were..

dozy

Some JWs will phone "Mother" for directions on anything. It is quite bizarre sometimes. As Ray Franz relates in his books , the Society has created a dependency culture where many JWs are simply incapable of making choices or decisions on their own , even on a quite simple level.

I remember a JW telling me he was thinking of buying a microwave ( this was about 35 years ago when they were still quite a novelty item ) and he had phoned Bethel to see if they were safe and "approved by the Society". The Bethelite told him that the kitchen there had a few so the JW was satisfied that they were OK.

19

First Proper Chat With the JWs in Almost 11 Years

by passwordprotected in

since disassociating in october 2008, i've had little to no direct contact with the jws, apart from immediate family members (ie my parents).

i've lived in my rented flat since may 2014 and haven't had a knock on the door in that whole time.

until saturday morning.

dozy

Interesting conversation that you had there.

Just one point I am slightly puzzled over - your assertion to the JWs that Jesus "probably didn't exist".

Did you mean by that that the Jesus depicted in the bible as a son of God , miracle worker etc didn't exist ( I guess most of us would agree with that. ) Nevertheless , although I am no longer religious & certainly don't believe in the "Jesus" that christian religions espose , my understanding had always been that historians generally are in agreement that there is a historic individual behind the description.

Wikipedia - "Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

72

Not invited to congregation “get togethers”. They finally said it

by solomon in

jw
friends

we don’t get many invitations to congregational social gatherings.

we don’t attend midweek meetings and miss about 1/3 of sunday meetings.

we go in service at least once a month.

dozy

I had faded for a few months ( my wife was still attending ) when an invite came from an elder to a "going away congregation party" he was holding for a young couple who were our good friends in the congregation. To be honest , I didn't really want to go so as I thought it could be a bit embarrassing and anyway I was very busy at work so I had pretty much decided the best option , to save any fuss or hassle , was on the night not to turn up , giving as an excuse that ( delete as required ) I had been called into work or wasn't well or one of the kids wasn't well and my wife could attend if she wanted to. Even when I was a fully assimilated JW I was never really a big fan of these kind of JW social occasions.

Some of the other more self righteous elders got to hear of it and one night a week or so before the party came the dreaded "knock at the door" and two elders turned up. They were pretty nervous and told me that the elders had met and decided ( by majority ) to rescind my invitation. I asked if they had told the elder who had invited me and they said that though he disagreed with the decision he was bound by collective responsibility.

I then asked for a scriptural basis for their decision and suddenly there was a kind of "rabbit in the headlights" look and the two elders just said - sorry , this is what we have decided. They didn't even have their bibles with them. I showed them the scripture in 1st Corinthians which talks about not even eating with a man who is immoral , an idolater , drunk etc and asked into which definition they were placing me. I asked if Bro Xxxxx ( a convicted paedophile in our congregation ) would be attending and they said they weren't sure. They then shuffled away , saying that they had other congregation business to attend to. It was all a bit surreal,

My wife was very upset and said that she wouldn't attend and this was kind of the last straw for her and she stopped attending the meetings a couple of weeks later. The whole episode was just pathetic really.

20

Jehovah's Witnesses commission secret report highly critical of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

on 14 november 2018, australian-based barristers david bennett ac, qc and james gibson presented to watchtower australia and the jehovah’s witnesses organisation their commissioned review and opinion on the findings and recommendations of the royal commission into the institutional responses to child sexual abuse as it related to jehovah’s witnesses.. .

the review entitled “review of the commission’s investigation into jehovah’s witnesses and its ensuing reports” was divided into four parts, as follows:.

part one considered the history and powers of royal commissions in general.. .

dozy

At least on this occasion they didn't employ "Chronica" Monica Applewhite , so called "expert witness" , flown over by the Society to Australia at vast expense to give a frankly hopeless testimony.

The premise of the defence seems to be that abuse amongst people who "happen to be one of JWs" ( the phrase tells you all you need to know about how the Society views rank & file JWs ) doesn't apply. Basically , because the abuse usually doesn't occur in a JW institution ( such as a school ) then really it is nothing at all to do with the Society. The implication they are trying to make is on the basis that criminal actions by a paedophile who , for example , "happened to be a Catholic" by perhaps attending an occasional service and self identifying as a Catholic should not be blamed on the Catholic church.

What the two lawyers either didn't appreciate ( or more likely , choose to ignore to try to muddy the waters ) is the all encompassing nature of JW life. While most JWS ( other than Bethelites ) are not 24/7 in a JW building , nevertheless the religion has a huge hold on its adherents and dictates virtually everything in their day-to-day lives.

They also fail to realise that JWs are trained to , in the first instance , sort out any issues in-house , including criminal activities. They are generally somewhat suspicious of the secular authorities and are strongly counselled against "bringing Jehovah's name into reproach". For example , in the case of fraud between JWs , they are told to sort it out between themselves , possibly escalating to judical action in the congregation , rather than taking court action.

25

"Fine Witness" diluted in latest experience

by neat blue dog in

the latest jwdotorg experience starts very familiarly:.

danielle, one of jehovah’s witnesses in south africa, found a bag that a customer had left behind in a coffee shop.

inside the bag was a wallet with money and credit cards.. when the owner met her to get it back,.

dozy

Yes - isn't their a scripture about not "blowing ones own trumpet"? Seems the Society aren't aware of it.

I have a friend who is a clerk working in the local police station. They are always getting lost items handed in to them - cellphones , wallets , keys etc - on a daily basis. Also the local Facebook group constantly have posts from people who have found debit cards , phones etc.

And I agree with the previous poster -when it comes to basic honesty , I lost count of the number of times I was ripped off by JWs. I rented out an apartment to one for three months - they never paid a penny in rent , left a stack of unpaid utility bills and trashed the flat until I virtually had to change the locks and kick them out. A JW businessman in a neighbouring congregation always used to tell me that he had one golden rule - never employ or have any business dealings with JWs.

15

Australian Bethel propose building a media complex

by Listener in

there's a post on exjw reddit stating that the ibsa are planning on building a media operation at the sydney bethel.. the estimated cost is $10 million aud and this in spite of the fact that they still have not joined the redress scheme or attempted in any monetary way of assisting abused victims within the organization.. the link below includes detailed plans.

they will be converting part of the current printery into a media complex.. they also propose to build a theme park in the form of a historical biblical site, including a man made mound and what one person suggests is a temple.. its not surprising that a bunch of old men in new york has dreamed all of this up - film sets in new york, england and now australia.

they are bonkers but it's a novel way of getting money from their followers.. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ernz3y/new_media_centre_at_the_australian_sydney_bethel/.compact.

dozy

If the Society really believed Armageddon was imminent they would be bunkering down ( no pun intended ) and simplifying things , just as they are always telling the rank & file to do.

9

JW Elder Swan Sermon

by Vanderhoven7 in

what happens when an elder learns the tatt.. https://youtu.be/tkyujamfziq.

dozy

The speaker was the poster called "Little Toe" about 20 years ago - he used to post here but I think he has moved on now. He is currently a church minister in central Scotland.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/20680/going-out-bang

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/littletoe-disassociation-talk.php

16

Just one foot in...

by Jofi_Wofo in

...with one foot out.. *deep breath*.

from day one, i've felt like i was one foot out of this religion, but it took me until over a decade to reach the point where i am ready to move on.

i'm a newly registered user to this site.

dozy

Welcome...

13

Did you understand the individual books of the bible ?

by Steel in

the last couple years i have been really getting into watching these videos called the bible protect.

there is no real dogmatic axe to grind.

just simple 10 -15 min videos on the individual books of the bible and kind of how it’s all connected together.

dozy

Most JWs - myself ( as an now ex ) included - just have a pretty superficial knowledge of the bible. It is anchored on the basic Society principles of "obey the slave" and "go out and preach". It's basically a kind of kindergarten level. Remember - JWs are actively told not to do any external research or to learn any hebrew or greek.

I remember an elder asked me to accompany him on a return visit he had on a guy who was a 20 year old theology student. We discussed things like the early history of the church in the NT and the trinity. Both of us thought we "knew our bibles" but the guy totally tore us apart - showed scriptures and used reasoning that we had never come across.

The Society quotes we used ( eg from the early Christians ) were shown to be pulled out of context or embellished. 80 combined years of attending meetings between us counted for nothing - we were left furtively looking up the concordance at the back of our bibles trying to make a defence. It really brought home to me just how little we actually knew and was a big "eureka" moment in me realising that this wasn't the truth.