Posts by dozy

26

Notes From an Elders Meeting

by WinstonSmith in

so in this past week i came across a stash of my old elder stuff.

i've scanned a bunch of notes and agendas, and public talk outlines.. check out an agenda and my notes from the meeting here: https://imgur.com/gallery/qqmyczn.

i’ve put an explanatory note on each image in imgur.

I was an elder for 10 years or so but always found elders meetings really boring and unproductive , to be honest. A lot of time was taken up with reading out letters from the branch on matters like child abuse and data protection.

There were usually a few elders who enjoyed the power and the gossip and one or two who you knew would always come looking for trouble and started verbal fights but to me it was usually a pointless waste of an evening. I laugh when I see how the elders meetings are portrayed on jw dot org - it is so far removed from reality.

40

Double Standards of the Watchtower

by Vanderhoven7 in

are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

here a a few i am aware of:.

1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

dozy

The Society are fond of quoting the scripture " he who doesn't work shall not eat".

Yet they have absolutely no qualms in people working minimum or zero hours and claiming every state benefit possible in lands where there is a generous social security system , especially if the individuals are pioneers. Circuit overseers living in private accommodation claim full housing benefit to pay their rent.

32

After the death of a spouse, how long did people wait to get remarried?

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

i was on the phone with a long-time friend from my original congregation north of new york city and she told me that the 'shit hit the fan' when a brother (long-time elder i know well) got remarried about 6 weeks after his wife died.. he was about 60 and his new wife (a pioneer that i also know) was about 50 and had never been married.. it became a huge issue when the co came.

due to all the talk and chatter in the congregation, he even included in one of his talks without naming names, that marriage is something sacred and that when and how people get married is a personal matter as long as it conforms to bible standards.. anyway, it shut everybody up.

any similar experiences in your current/former congregations?.

dozy

I remember one instance where it was really hasty - 3 months or so. The guy was an elder , his wife died of cancer & very quickly he began "courting" a sister. His daughter was really upset and for years she had a lot of resentment towards her step mother.

The problem in JW world is that you can't date for extended periods and certainly not live together , so the pressure is always to marry as soon as possible.

12

My Grandmothers Funeral

by Enrique Tomlinson 1 in

my beloved grandmother has passed away and her funeral is next week at a kingdom hall.

she was a loyal jw, and unfortunately i am not understanding of the funeral procedures.

please could you kindly explain what what will happen in the funeral?

dozy

Have you discussed this with the more immediate relatives? You won't be permitted to read the poem. The format is as described by the other posters - a short ( 30 minutes or so ) talk from an outline , usually with a few anecdotal comments about the deceased. JW beliefs are presented as beliefs of the deceased ( such as the concept that the deceased is just sleeping and will be resurrected soon with perfect health into a paradise earth ) .

From the latest Society funeral outline:

Adapt the material to match the circumstances of the deceased and the needs of grieving ones. While not overpraising the deceased, you may use events from his life throughout the talk to show how those in attendance can benefit from his example. Use good balance in this regard. You may choose to arrange a well-rehearsed interview with a brother in good standing who knew the deceased well. Any use of humor should be moderate. The dignity of the occasion should be preserved. The talk need not exceed 30 minutes. Do not invite the audience to make expressions about the deceased, as this could introduce inappropriate or unscriptural elements into the program.

https://faithleaks.org/wiki/documents/4/41/S-32-E-16.pdf

JW funeral talks used to be very scripted but I have noticed a trend in more recent times towards being less so and the latest ( 2016 ) outline deleted the expression about not eulogising the deceased. .

22

Were / Are the Governing Body "Rock Stars"

by Number 6 in

in 1976 when i was a young lad of 6, fred franz came to glasgow and gave a talk in govan a suburb on the south side of the city (for those of you who dont know).

our congregation hired a bus to ferry us all to the hall and it was standing room only.

being only 6, i have only the vaguest of memories other than an old man shouting and bawling from the stage.

dozy

The GB used to be a lot lower profile when I was young , but I do remember a "Special talk" that was organised in a city hall and Ewart Chitty ( who later resigned as a GB member , allegedly for homosexual tendencies and/or alcoholism ) gave a long talk. He was applauded onto the platform and the applause afterwards was the longest and loudest I have ever heard at a JW meeting. After the talk he appeared at the front of the hall and was virtually mobbed. Even as a child back then , I felt somewhat uncomfortable.

One of our elders briefly met Fred Franz at a convention in the USA - he shook his hand and had a brief conversation lasting probably a minute at most. Franz apparently made some sort of comment to the effect that "Armageddon is very near , brother". This incident had a profound affect on the elder - he constantly referenced it in this answers , his talks and items and even in casual conversation - usually alluding to how "the GB know that the end is near" etc. ( The fact that this comment was made in the early 1960's didn't seem to diminish its long term effect. ) I remember once somewhat facetiously mentioning to him that he hadn't spoken about his conversation with Franz for at least two weeks and he suddenly got really angry with me.

28

Current JW growth in the United States in historical perspective and in comparison with other groups

by slimboyfat in

current jw growth is slower than during most of their history.

the only probable exceptions are following 1975 when there was a brief worldwide decrease, the late 1920s when around half of the members left the movement, perhaps around the 1917 schism, and various schisms during russell’s time.

there were also periods of sluggish growth during the 1950/60s and around 2000. .

dozy

I have to admit , speaking now as an outsider , that I do remain quite baffled that JWs still have growth , or at least are flatlining. It's possible that another factor is that as the barriers to leave are so high then they are able to retain most of their long term members , as well as converting enough children and "interested ones" to grow , albeit at a slow rate.

Other religions may also evangelise and use social media , but perhaps this just masks / offsets a greater "churn" of members. I know a local Pentecostal church which uses lots of social media and runs a food bank and a childrens nursery ( as conduits to ostensibly do "good works" , but really to try to bring in new members ) etc but hasn't really grown overall in numbers as people come and go.

I spoke to a friend who used to be involved and he just said that he kind of got bored with it and the politics and constant demands on his time and for donations so he just quietly checked out and he knew many others who had done so. He described the process as just like not renewing a gym membership.You don't really have that easy option as a JW - even fading is really difficult and has often severe consequences in terms of shunning etc..

17

What Books Have You Read That Been Critical Of The Jehovah's Witnesses?

by The Bethelite in

jw
friends

please rate your top choices .

1. crises of conscience.

ray franz.

dozy

Among others ( Franz's books helped me the most ) the following two free downloads I found helpful.

Captives of a Concept is an excellent short read. http://www.jw.or.kr/_PDFs/CaptivesOfaConcept01.pdf

The Atheist Book of Bible Stories ( free PDF download below ) is fascinating , although it deals more with the bible rather than JWs , but it is written by an ex-JW

https://app.box.com/s/uclytd91jd

12

How Do You Think Eco Terrorists Should Be Dealt With?

by minimus in

jw
friends

recently, some activists decided to interrupt a train that was delivering coal.

police were called and 10 hours later the activists were dispersed.

it’s not unusual now to see picketers close down a bridge or a street for “climate change “.

dozy

Interesting interview by Piers Morgan here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISePLL1wcw

60

Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

by Fadeaway3pointer in

fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

dozy

Sorry that you received that letter. Albeit you didn't celebrate Christmas in 2019 , it does seem to be a time of year which tends to focus the minds of JWs regarding "bad association" as it is something very tangible that they can use to judge faded family.

Some excellent suggested replies from the posters but we are dealing with lifetime indoctrinated cult members here , so it is impossible to draft any kind of effective response. Best wishes..

19

The Craziness of an Average Bible Study

by Number 6 in

last week i posted a thread asking about who knew any "real anointed" and got some cracking replies.. that got me to thinking, as someone brought up in the 70's and 80's in the watchtower religion, my experience of bible studeis in their homes and those who made it to the hall were mostly batshit crazy or at least people with some serious quirks.. i'll relate a few, none of whose names i remember with any clarity.. in our cong we had an older couple who were from london, but who had been in the 1950's in the circuit work in the mid west usa.

they brought along some woman one night they had started a study with who told everyone cheerfully she was a recovering alcoholic and this was her cure (coming to the meetings).

this went on for a few weeks until one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and i mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine.

dozy

For the last 20 years or so that I was a JW I also don't really remember anyone who could be regarded as "stable" actually proceeding to baptism other than relatives of JWs. The (very) few that came along always seemed to have some kind of issues.

One thing I did notice was that quite often the studies people had were also being called on by the Mormons and / or other Christian groups that did outreach programs. The impression I got was that this was the same small pool of people who tended to be very needy , often with very few friends and somewhat social pariahs who were delighted when someone would take an interest in them. Often when the study got to the point that they needed to show some commitment ( such as going to the meetings regularly ) the study was stopped , either by the publisher or by the individual.

When I was pioneering , I had a study for about five years with a widowed older guy - it developed from a long term magazine route. We used to have interesting chats - the guy had a fascinating background with the British army and had been badly injured and invalided in the Suez campaign of 1956.He didn't have any friends and his family very rarely saw him as they lived far away and weren't really interested in him.

I would bring him to the Memorial and an occasional special talk etc but otherwise he wouldn't go to the meetings. I was kind of aware that he would never become a JW but it was more of a social call and easy time for me , especially during the winter. It also gave me a bit of kudos in the congregation and I dined out on the fact that I had a study for much of this time! I think a lot of bible studies are on this basis , especially for pioneers desperate to get their time in. When I stopped pioneering I just downgraded it to a monthly Sunday visit with the magazines and eventually he was hospitalised and the call fizzled out. I still miss our chats though.