Posts by dozy

22

Were / Are the Governing Body "Rock Stars"

by Number 6 in

in 1976 when i was a young lad of 6, fred franz came to glasgow and gave a talk in govan a suburb on the south side of the city (for those of you who dont know).

our congregation hired a bus to ferry us all to the hall and it was standing room only.

being only 6, i have only the vaguest of memories other than an old man shouting and bawling from the stage.

dozy

The GB used to be a lot lower profile when I was young , but I do remember a "Special talk" that was organised in a city hall and Ewart Chitty ( who later resigned as a GB member , allegedly for homosexual tendencies and/or alcoholism ) gave a long talk. He was applauded onto the platform and the applause afterwards was the longest and loudest I have ever heard at a JW meeting. After the talk he appeared at the front of the hall and was virtually mobbed. Even as a child back then , I felt somewhat uncomfortable.

One of our elders briefly met Fred Franz at a convention in the USA - he shook his hand and had a brief conversation lasting probably a minute at most. Franz apparently made some sort of comment to the effect that "Armageddon is very near , brother". This incident had a profound affect on the elder - he constantly referenced it in this answers , his talks and items and even in casual conversation - usually alluding to how "the GB know that the end is near" etc. ( The fact that this comment was made in the early 1960's didn't seem to diminish its long term effect. ) I remember once somewhat facetiously mentioning to him that he hadn't spoken about his conversation with Franz for at least two weeks and he suddenly got really angry with me.

28

Current JW growth in the United States in historical perspective and in comparison with other groups

by slimboyfat in

current jw growth is slower than during most of their history.

the only probable exceptions are following 1975 when there was a brief worldwide decrease, the late 1920s when around half of the members left the movement, perhaps around the 1917 schism, and various schisms during russell’s time.

there were also periods of sluggish growth during the 1950/60s and around 2000. .

dozy

I have to admit , speaking now as an outsider , that I do remain quite baffled that JWs still have growth , or at least are flatlining. It's possible that another factor is that as the barriers to leave are so high then they are able to retain most of their long term members , as well as converting enough children and "interested ones" to grow , albeit at a slow rate.

Other religions may also evangelise and use social media , but perhaps this just masks / offsets a greater "churn" of members. I know a local Pentecostal church which uses lots of social media and runs a food bank and a childrens nursery ( as conduits to ostensibly do "good works" , but really to try to bring in new members ) etc but hasn't really grown overall in numbers as people come and go.

I spoke to a friend who used to be involved and he just said that he kind of got bored with it and the politics and constant demands on his time and for donations so he just quietly checked out and he knew many others who had done so. He described the process as just like not renewing a gym membership.You don't really have that easy option as a JW - even fading is really difficult and has often severe consequences in terms of shunning etc..

17

What Books Have You Read That Been Critical Of The Jehovah's Witnesses?

by The Bethelite in

jw
friends

please rate your top choices .

1. crises of conscience.

ray franz.

dozy

Among others ( Franz's books helped me the most ) the following two free downloads I found helpful.

Captives of a Concept is an excellent short read. http://www.jw.or.kr/_PDFs/CaptivesOfaConcept01.pdf

The Atheist Book of Bible Stories ( free PDF download below ) is fascinating , although it deals more with the bible rather than JWs , but it is written by an ex-JW

https://app.box.com/s/uclytd91jd

12

How Do You Think Eco Terrorists Should Be Dealt With?

by minimus in

jw
friends

recently, some activists decided to interrupt a train that was delivering coal.

police were called and 10 hours later the activists were dispersed.

it’s not unusual now to see picketers close down a bridge or a street for “climate change “.

dozy

Interesting interview by Piers Morgan here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISePLL1wcw

60

Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

by Fadeaway3pointer in

fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

dozy

Sorry that you received that letter. Albeit you didn't celebrate Christmas in 2019 , it does seem to be a time of year which tends to focus the minds of JWs regarding "bad association" as it is something very tangible that they can use to judge faded family.

Some excellent suggested replies from the posters but we are dealing with lifetime indoctrinated cult members here , so it is impossible to draft any kind of effective response. Best wishes..

19

The Craziness of an Average Bible Study

by Number 6 in

last week i posted a thread asking about who knew any "real anointed" and got some cracking replies.. that got me to thinking, as someone brought up in the 70's and 80's in the watchtower religion, my experience of bible studeis in their homes and those who made it to the hall were mostly batshit crazy or at least people with some serious quirks.. i'll relate a few, none of whose names i remember with any clarity.. in our cong we had an older couple who were from london, but who had been in the 1950's in the circuit work in the mid west usa.

they brought along some woman one night they had started a study with who told everyone cheerfully she was a recovering alcoholic and this was her cure (coming to the meetings).

this went on for a few weeks until one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and i mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine.

dozy

For the last 20 years or so that I was a JW I also don't really remember anyone who could be regarded as "stable" actually proceeding to baptism other than relatives of JWs. The (very) few that came along always seemed to have some kind of issues.

One thing I did notice was that quite often the studies people had were also being called on by the Mormons and / or other Christian groups that did outreach programs. The impression I got was that this was the same small pool of people who tended to be very needy , often with very few friends and somewhat social pariahs who were delighted when someone would take an interest in them. Often when the study got to the point that they needed to show some commitment ( such as going to the meetings regularly ) the study was stopped , either by the publisher or by the individual.

When I was pioneering , I had a study for about five years with a widowed older guy - it developed from a long term magazine route. We used to have interesting chats - the guy had a fascinating background with the British army and had been badly injured and invalided in the Suez campaign of 1956.He didn't have any friends and his family very rarely saw him as they lived far away and weren't really interested in him.

I would bring him to the Memorial and an occasional special talk etc but otherwise he wouldn't go to the meetings. I was kind of aware that he would never become a JW but it was more of a social call and easy time for me , especially during the winter. It also gave me a bit of kudos in the congregation and I dined out on the fact that I had a study for much of this time! I think a lot of bible studies are on this basis , especially for pioneers desperate to get their time in. When I stopped pioneering I just downgraded it to a monthly Sunday visit with the magazines and eventually he was hospitalised and the call fizzled out. I still miss our chats though.

10

Where do members of the Governing Body and their wives Live ? Not their actual addresses of course. however ?..........

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i`m just curious about the lifestyle they themselves are enjoying compared to the millions of followers they have in the jw religion.do any of the gb members have private homes that they own and live in ?

or do they and their wives live in a communal arrangement .?

if they do have private homes they own and live in what type of suburb/area do they live in ?

dozy

The days of "Beth Sarim" (Rutherford's palatial home in San Diego) are long gone.

Basically the GB live in the same apartments that the normal Bethelites do , though Ray Franz wrote that due to their seniority , the GB generally have the choice of the nicer rooms with the best views.

43

Did You Know Any "Genuine"" Old School Anointed?

by Number 6 in

growing up in scotland in the 1970s in scotland the anointed were few and far between, but we had one old dude in our cong who claimed to be one of the anointed.

in the days when it was taken seriously.. i'd be curious how you viewed them.

thing is, he wasn't an elder, or even a ministerial servant, just a plain old publisher.. but he was revered like he had a hotline to jesus.. the other week i was talking to a friend of similar age to me but who hung around the wt a lot longer than i did, and he just commented "oh him... he was a doddery old fool who used to just sit and piss himself.

dozy

There was an old anointed "sister" in my congregation when I was a kid who if there is such a thing as "genuine anointed" ( spoiler alert - there isn't ) she kind of fitted the bill. She was a hard working , honest pioneer - used to cycle everywhere on the ministry and had numerous calls - knew her bible really well - frankly , better than the elders in the congregation. Although never married & childless , she was great with us kids - they type who always had a few sweeties for after the meetings and would talk to you & have a real interest in what you were doing.

I recall that she had an incredible memory for anything personal like exams you were taking at school - for example if you told her you had a Maths test in 3 weeks time she would remember & after the date she would come up & ask how the exam went. I think she went back to the 30's and there was some connection via her parents with the Bible Students of Russell's time.

I wouldn't say she was venerated but she was respected. Unlike many of the "new" anointed , she would never really speak about it. She would very discreetly take the emblems.

That generation has long died off now in the Org.

39

Email from JW relative/elder

by Lynnie in

as much as i enjoy you and pete's company, you also know our understanding of how much we want you to be reunited with jehovah and his people.. .

we did not set the standards for what jehovah says about our associations with those who choose to not serve him.

so we will always be there for you and pete, but it is in your hands as to how we can enjoy your friendship.. .

dozy

These letters / emails ( of which like many I also have received a few when I stopped attending ) always seem to me to be very self indulgent. I can never really understand what the motive of the sender is. Do they seriously think that it will "shock the person to their senses" and they come rushing back , tail between their legs , into the Org. Or are they just trying to give some degree of self justification? I just don't really get it.

24

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses competent to resolve the issue of blood transfusion?

by 30LPP in

hello everyone.. first of all, i would like to say hello to all of you.i am not a jehovah's witness but i have been a child with "truth" because of my family.

i am interested in the subject of this sect in the hope that i will be able to wake up the rest of my family.i would also like to share with you another interesting book of polish author włodzimierz bednarski, which was released in 2019, quite recently, and which is a small guidebook for the medical community and criticism of the watchtower society’s teachings.the book in pdf format is available for download at: .

are jehovah’s witnesses competent to resolve the issue of blood transfusion?known books of this author are also:armageddon in 1975 'probability' or 'possibility'?year 1925 and millions now living will never die!ever-changing teachings of jehovah's witnessesthis book will probably be released later at:https://wtsarchive.com/pubs/3rd-party-publicationsi encourage you to read the above materials, because they are really worth it.. i wish everyone perseverance and health..

dozy

So then an elder would be removed even though he repented ?

Yes. Once anyone is privately or publicly reproved , automatically all "privileges" and congregation positions are removed ( eg elder , MS , pioneer - right down to microphone handler ).