knock, knock, who's there?
no jehovah's witnesses or double ...
comment box.
LT:I have written what I have written...
So you do support a complete governmental ban in Scotland of any door to door evangelizing activity by religious groups , including the churches that you are involved with as well (assuming that any is actually undertaken!) You have developed some interesting viewpoints over the years , LT!
knock, knock, who's there?
no jehovah's witnesses or double ...
comment box.
Brothers in Forfar have already confirmed that the ban does not apply to Jehovah's witnesses.
I see you approve of the "ban", LT. On what basis? Is it your present view that all door to door evangelising by religious groups is wrong and should be banned by the secular authorities?
an elder in my congregation asked me again yesterday, for about the tenth time, whether i have filled out my new blood card yet - is this normal?
it is getting embarrassing as i just keep saying i have not got round to it yet.
i am getting the feeling that it is being used as a sort of loyalty test.
It is quite unusual for a Book Study Overseer to be constantly asking you about filling in a blood card as the whole emphasis is that completing the card shouldn't be done under duress. None of the elders in my congregation make any effort to "follow up" the brothers to ensure that their card is completed. If any did , they would get a lot of hassle from the other elders.
There have been some cases in the UK where certain officious NHS authorities have refused access to patients from church ministers (including JWs) by quoting Data Protection legislation and patient confidentiality. The issue was raised in Westminster http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020625/halltext/20625h03.htm and more recently in the Scottish Parliment and Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. The clause asking for permission to allow the HLC to have access to the patient records was added following a meeting with the Home Office to try to circumvent this problem. The notion , promoted by certain opposed ex-witnesses in the UK , that this is some kind of underhand move to "snoop" on JW hospital patients and insist that they abstain from blood transfusions is , sadly , yet another apostate lie.
i live in brussels, belgium.
i became a witness at the age of 18. my parents were not quite happy.
my father forbade me to attend more than one meeting a week.
Interesting story - it is sad that such a zealous young brother ran up against a brick wall when it came to this doctrine. You were fortunate that you weren't DFd for so openly arguing and campaigning against it.
I said I would appeal to the Governing Body.
Emm - maybe in the days of Leo Greenless (allegedly!)
name as many reasons as you can why some won't leave the watchtower organization, even though they know something is wrong.
Why some won't leave the Watchtower........
In no particular order...
1... Inertia
2... Attitudes , lies and lifestyles of apostates / ex-witnesses
3... Lack of any viable , sensible & realistic alternative form of "Christian" worship that matches the biblical pattern.
4... Possibility (though faint) that JWs might be right after all. (Say there is a 10% probability that this is the true religion - what is P10 of everlasting life with perfect health in a paradise earth? Or P1? P1 of infinity is infinity. People buy a lottery ticket on a 1 in 13 million chance.)
5... Family ties
6... Business interests and contacts
7... Purpose and fulfillment through WTS activities (eg Quick builds , organising & preparing meeting parts etc)
8... Social ties - football after the group , BBQs at the weekend , coffee and doughnuts after Saturday ministry.
9.. All those sexy babes / guys at assemblies (delete as appropriate - age & marital status dependant). (Where do they go for the rest of the year? When I was a single guy , I used to literally walk around with my tongue hanging out.)
10... Access to free janitorial supplies from place of employment (hey - I made that one up).
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http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050621/debtext/50621-21.htm
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John Selwyn Gummer (though he tends to drop the Selwyn these days - too elitist) is well known for his hatred of Jehovahs's witness , Mormons and other groups. He was one of a few MPs who dumped the Anglicans when they voted in favour of women priests and converted to Catholicism. Puzzlingly for someone who publicly slags off groups that he determines as cults , he describes Graham Leonard (former Bishop of London) as his guru and tried to use his political influence to get him appointed as an archbishop in the Catholic church.
His most famous moment was during the BSE scare in the 90's , getting his four year old daughter to eat a hamburger. He is generally regarded as "a bit of a plonker" , as we say in these parts!
Ironically , if he was to say that he "hated" Moslems or Jews, he would be prosecuted for religious bigotry (if he was foolish enough to say it outside the House of Commons). In the UK , the only religions you can openly criticise are Christian.
yes, many will remember the panorama programme shown on channel 4 (uk) a few years ago.
the one that highlighted the child abuse scandal and the disgusting manner in which the borg deals with it.
then when the letter was read out to the congregations a week or so later addressing this issue by dismissing the programme by simply saying that two witnesses were needed before a person could make an accusation.
I was shaken up , but my wife found it profoundly upsetting. Jws rarely are exposed to negative images of their religion.
What did you think about the programme that had been shown?
To be honest , I found it rather sensationalist & shallow- tabloid style journalism & not like the Panoramas that I used to watch in the past. I remember being annoyed that as a TV license payer , I had paid for the reporter to travel to the USA & hassle the GB member. Bill Bowen came over as a “good ol’ Southern boy” and didn’t impress me at all - I thought he was a bit deceitful. His figure of 24,000 child molesters was so manifestly untrue that it destroyed his credibility. Brits don’t like his type (see George W Bush for details).
If you were rank and file at the time , did it shock you?
Shocked - no , saddened & disappointed , yes. I was aware of the problems in Stevenston & knew many of the elders involved.
Did you view yourself as being quite spiritually strong at the time but then suddenly find yourself having serious doubts about the borg because of this programme?
I already had doubts and , in hindsight , it probably was another nail in the coffin , but due to the shortcomings of the program , it was quite easy to rationalise away.
Incidentally , there was no apology made or even requested from the BBC.
i ran across this the other day and it caught my eye.. w85 12/1 pp.
6-7 righteousness before god
neither catholic nor protestant "justification".
The WTS acknowledges that confession to men isn't essential but is strongly advisable. They are generally careful not to state this explicity in the publications , presumably as it would undermine discipline in the congregations. Generally they use expressions like "If you are committing a sin , why not seek the help of spiritual shepherds."
This understanding is also implicit in the agreement that if an elder committed a serious sin several years ago , didn't admit it , but shows evidence of Jehovah's blessing , then there is no need to delete him or for him to resign.
To illustrate- my body of elders dealt with a matter a few years ago when a married sister confessed to immoral conduct several years previously while she was courting because she wanted to get it off her chest (hmmm - perhaps an unfortunate choice of words ). The sister had subsequently pioneered & her husband was in good standing. No action was taken & the PO admitted that she would have been best not to have mentioned it at all , as Jehovah had already forgiven her.
not sure if it is the correct terminology, but i've heard of a few instances where the society had to step in and completely "delete" a congregation because of issues with incompetent elders and out of control publishers.
i've never heard specifics.
does this actually happen?
This does happen occasionally - there was a congregation in Perth (Scotland) disbanded quite recently (nepotism and incompetent elders) and in Corstorphine , Edinburgh back in the late 80's. The elders are removed and any remaining witnesses (most have usually jumped ship already) disperse to surrounding congregations - it helps if a Kingdom Hall is shared.
The WTS are loathe to disband congregations , though , and will do anything to keep things going - they often "parachute" in elders from other congregations to replace those who have been removed.
the yorkshire ripper killed umpteen women and is a jw now.
if i was an active jw i wouldn`t like the thought of living with him forever, after the way he killed all those women.
what do you think about the fact that they have accepted him to the org?
This has been discussed before , albeit inaccurately , eg http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/84353/1.ashx
My understanding is that he occasionally has been visited in the past by the brothers who are responsible for Broadmoor , but has not been called on for many years. He isn't and never has been , a witness.
