Posts by onacruse

20

Baptismal vows in Norwegian?

by kifoy in

does anyone know how the baptismal vows are worded in norwegian?

i think they can be found in wt june 1, 1985. but i don't have wts that old.

i also need the page number in the norwegian edition of the 1985 wt.

onacruse

As late as 1952 this is what the WT said:

*** w52 3/1 p. 159 Questions From Readers ***
? If one has already been baptized, does he need to repeat the baptism after he gets a knowledge of the truth?—R. G., Canada.
Whether a person is to be baptized again or not is determined by his understanding of baptism when he first underwent it. Did he understand the meaning of the symbol of water immersion? Did he fully appreciate that it meant a complete dedication of his life to the Lord, to serve the Lord, to do His will? Had he made such a dedication in his mind and heart and before the Lord prior to the immersion in water, which is a public symbolizing of the previously made dedication? If so, and if the baptism was a complete submersion in water, then there is no necessity for the person to perform the symbol again. The one who does the immersing, the place of immersion, and who are present as spectators, are not the determining factors. It is the proper understanding and appreciation of baptism on the part of the one being immersed that counts. If the person did not have this understanding and appreciation, if he merely viewed baptism as a religious ceremony affiliating him with a certain church, not realizing the meaning or importance of the step and what would be thereafter required of him from a Scriptural standpoint, then when such a person comes to a knowledge of the truth and wishes to dedicate his life to the God of truth as one of His witnesses the person should symbolize this dedication that he has now made with understanding.

But then the 1956 WT backtracked:

*** w56 7/1 p. 406 Why One Must Be Baptized ***
BAPTIZED A SECOND TIME

14
Often the question is asked whether one baptized previously in a ceremony performed by some other religious group should again be baptized when coming to an accurate knowledge of the truth and making a dedication to Jehovah. Because of what has been already said, now there is compelling reason for also saying, Yes, one must be baptized again. Obviously, by any of such religious systems one was never in reality baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," because had he been so baptized he would have appreciated the authority and office of such true Higher Powers. And if previously dedicated to Jehovah, the individual would have separated himself from such God-dishonoring Babylonish systems even before letting them baptize him. So the act of being baptized is not the important thing, but, rather, that which the act symbolizes is the element of importance.

20

Baptismal vows in Norwegian?

by kifoy in

does anyone know how the baptismal vows are worded in norwegian?

i think they can be found in wt june 1, 1985. but i don't have wts that old.

i also need the page number in the norwegian edition of the 1985 wt.

onacruse

This got me to thinking: I don't recall that it was always the case that someone presenting for baptism even had to answer any questions! This was the earliest reference I could find regarding this:

w 42 302

Before proceeding with your baptism it is proper, first, that you answer affirmatively these questions to show you are taking this step with the Scriptural understanding thereof and are fit for baptism as a devoted servant of the Lord, fully responsible to Him:
(1) Do you believe in Jehovah God the Father, that "salvation belongeth unto Jehovah," and that Christ Jesus is his Son in whose blood your sins are washed away and by whom salvation comes to you from God?
(2) Have you therefore confessed your sins to God and asked for cleansing by Christ Jesus, and therefore turned away from sin and the world, and consecrated yourself without reservation to God to do his will?

50

A Holiday Gift to JWD, from Scully & Friends

by Scully in

i have been working on this little project for quite some time, and it's finally ready to share with all of you... just in time for the holidays!.

this project entailed converting scans of hard copies of public talk outlines into pdf format and then compiling all of them into zip folders.

there are over 150 documents in total, complete with update notices from brooklyn.

onacruse

Thanks! Lots of hard work.

If any of you would be interested, there is also a CD of BOE letters available.

53

How do angels and demons influence mankind?

by onacruse in

wts publications, and indeed virtually all religions on this planet, assert that angels and demons have regular influence on mankind, on individual human beings as well as on the general course of human events.. but i've never read anything specific about how they supposedly accomplish this.. do they tweak our neurons?

do they fiddle with our hormones, thereby making us feel good or bad about a certain course of action?

do they inject thoughts into our brains, perhaps in such a subtle way that we think those are our own thoughts?

onacruse

WTS publications, and indeed virtually all religions on this planet, assert that angels and demons have regular influence on mankind, on individual human beings as well as on the general course of human events.

But I've never read anything specific about how they supposedly accomplish this.

Do they tweak our neurons? Do they fiddle with our hormones, thereby making us feel good or bad about a certain course of action? Do they inject thoughts into our brains, perhaps in such a subtle way that we think those are our own thoughts? Do they cause us to have certain dreams, which we subsequently attribute to supernatural revelation? Do they make a General misread a battle-plan, so that he sends his armies left instead of right, thereby altering the outcome of a War? Do they make a Bible randomly open to a certain chapter and verse, so that the reader suddenly reads "just the right Scripture"?

17

why do JW's believe ........

by grewupJWnoselfesteem78-95 in

jw
friends

talking with my father (exjw) me (exjw) family 60% still jw he mentioned that fallen angels can no longer materialise into human form................. he says they they were forbidden after the flood........... i do watch, read and speak to many ex-freemasons (illuminati) and they are very confident that even today fallen angels have the power or means to take on forms if they wish to (even human) ............................... what do jw's use as a scriptual basis for this argument......................????.

.

onacruse

*** w55 10/1 pp. 594-595 par. 8 Part 3—What Do the Scriptures Say About "Survival After Death"? ***

8
Their being "reserved with eternal bonds" evidently means also that they are no more permitted to materialize in the flesh as before the Flood. This power of materialization was exercised by God’s faithful angels, including Jesus Christ, for thousands of years after the Flood, down into the day of Christ’s faithful apostles, according to God’s will and to serve his holy purposes. But the sinner angels were not allowed to use this power longer, for they would misuse it.

This was repeated (with greater certainty) just last year:

*** w06 1/15 p. 7 Angels—How They Affect Us ***
Demons are dangerous, but we need not dread them. Their power is limited. When the disobedient angels returned to heaven, they were not allowed back into God’s family of faithful angels. Instead, they were cut off from any spiritual enlightenment from God, with only a dark outlook for the future. Indeed, they were confined in a condition of spiritual darkness known as Tartarus. (2 Peter 2:4) Jehovah restrained them with "eternal bonds," so that they are in spiritual darkness. Furthermore, they are now unable to materialize human bodies.—Jude 6.

36

1st Post - 5 year lurker.

by whyareyoucame in

jw
friends

i've been reading this forum for the past 5 years, today during christmas, my wonderful daughter "brooke" aka whyamihere finally got off her a$$ to show me how to post.. what next, you say?

who the hell knows, but i am here, while i finish my beer..... i lost my train of thought - yay for chistmas and that wonderful sweet necture that god created called southern comfort.. by the way, brooke is typing this, because i can't read while under the influence.. singing out to all my fellow apostates!.

remember this - jesus is god!.

onacruse

Hello there Sparky.

As you've been lurking for 5 years, then you know that saying things like "Jesus is God" is bound to evoke some spirited debate.

So put down that can of beer and defend yourself! LOL

20

Baptismal vows in Norwegian?

by kifoy in

does anyone know how the baptismal vows are worded in norwegian?

i think they can be found in wt june 1, 1985. but i don't have wts that old.

i also need the page number in the norwegian edition of the 1985 wt.

onacruse

without even a comment on the fact that something has changed in the wording, and why.

Ahhhhh! But here's the reason:

*** w87 4/15 p. 12 Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism ***
Recently the two questions addressed to baptismal candidates were simplified so that candidates could answer with full comprehension of what is involved in coming into intimate relationship with God and his earthly organization.

Apparently some had previously had a misunderstanding (using the "old" questions), and in God's due time He made the necessary "simplifications."

20

Happy Anniversary, my sweetheart!

by onacruse in

jw
friends

yes, it was just 5 years ago on xmas day that bikerchic and i got married in las vegas at the little church of the west.

it was too funny, going to the courthouse with $50 in hand (cash only, please!

), and walking out to a parade of taxis all offering to take us wherever we wanted to go (cash only, please!).

onacruse

yesidid, yeah, those are memorable times!

There are a couple of more pieces to the story that I'd like to repeat (hey, it's our Anniversary, and I have the right to boor y'all to tears, right? LOL):

1) When I chose my screen-name, I was thinking only "on-a-cruise through life." I was still, even though df'd, thinking much like a JW, and since I knew that my ex-wife (JW) would never remarry unless I gave her "grounds," and since I had no intention of doing such a thing, I figured that I'd be a bachelor for the rest of my life. So it was a surprise when bikerchic later told me that there were a lot of people that thought I meant "on-a-cruise for chicks." And here all that time I thought those folks that joined me in chat were just there because they liked to hear me spout on and on about WTS history, etc. roflmao

2) Late one night, when I was camped out in chat (as was my wont ), Little Toe and barry joined in, and we got to talking about 1 Corinthians 7, re: remarriage. Well, they pointed out some things to me that (surprise, surprise!) I'd never thought of, and thus fell the last barrier to me feeling free to further explore a relationship (with intent) with bikerchic.

34

Vote for your favorite "celebrated JW scholar"!!

by onacruse in

jw
friends

now, there are so many from which to choose...where is one to start?.

well, since i'm an old-timer, i must by default cast my vote for clayton j. woodworth, that inspired author and editor of the golden age who single-handedly warned the world about the dangers of aluminum cookware and vaccinations, among so many other things.. only once in a generation comes along a man with such inspired insights as to baffle the minds of mere ordinary humans..

onacruse

However, since Clayton Woodworth died in 1951, the Your Will Be Done book must either be a posthumous work, or perhaps he was channeling with Franz?

*** re chap. 20 pp. 124-125 par. 17 A Multitudinous Great Crowd ***

17 From the time of the apostle John and on into the Lord’s day, anointed Christians were puzzled as to the identity of the great crowd. It is fitting, then, that one of the 24 elders, representing anointed ones already in heaven, should stir John’s thinking by raising a pertinent question. "And in response one of the elders said to me: ‘These who are dressed in the white robes,who are they and where did they come from?’ So right away I said to him: ‘My lord, you are the one that knows.’" (Revelation 7:13,14a) Yes, that elder could locate the answer and give it to John. This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. For their part, those of the John class on earth got to learn the identity of the great crowd by closely observing what Jehovah was performing in their midst. They were quick to appreciate the dazzling flash of divine light that emblazoned the theocratic firmament in 1935, at Jehovah’s due time.

34

Vote for your favorite "celebrated JW scholar"!!

by onacruse in

jw
friends

now, there are so many from which to choose...where is one to start?.

well, since i'm an old-timer, i must by default cast my vote for clayton j. woodworth, that inspired author and editor of the golden age who single-handedly warned the world about the dangers of aluminum cookware and vaccinations, among so many other things.. only once in a generation comes along a man with such inspired insights as to baffle the minds of mere ordinary humans..

onacruse

littlerock guy, I think the antimatter attack would be much more impressive! LOL

What you quoted was repeated in the 1960 WT:

*** w60 4/1 p. 219 par. 25 Part 35—"Your Will Be Done on Earth" ***

25
Studies have been made of the effect of cosmic rays on living cells in animal bodies, particularly with respect to disorders of the mind. What effect do they have or will they have on the way men behave here on earth? Certainly the Creator of cosmic rays, Jehovah God, could use these to affect the minds of his enemies, including the king of the north and the king of the south, and could drive them to mutual slaughter: "every man’s sword shall be against his brother." (Ezek. 38:21, AS) In this prophecy God warns that he will also use other natural forces that are at his disposal, possibly a rain of antimatter that has the property of annihilating any material thing that it meets. He warns all scoffers that he will do an ‘unusual work.’—Isa. 28:21.