found the above titled book while surfing amazon.
looks worth a read, might buy.
anyone here read it?
Haven't read this one, but another good one to consider is:
Bad News Religion by Greg Albrecht (The virus that attacks God's grace.) "A convincing, liberating exploration of how we, in the name of religion, have shifted the focus from the work of God to our ability to become worthy of salvation. The result is bondage and defeat rather than freedom and grace."
The author is a former Armonstrong member. It is very enlightening. Really gives you insight on the dangers of legalism.
imagine you can provide him/her with just one single chapter of any book available.
no explanations.
he/she would promise to read and think about what it says;.
I agree with everyone else. The "one thing" seems to depend upon the person individually. If they have a locked mind, then it may be that there is nothing you could show them that would sink it. At least not at that moment. Once the seed is planted though.........anything could happen down the road.
The one WTS book exerpt that I read, that I thought would make a difference to me, personally, if I were in the JWs, would be : The Finished Mystery 1926, page 85 It goes to great lengths to explain how the leviathan is actually a locomotive! Gives Scriptural references, brackets of description of what the different parts are, etc.... it just floored me. I thought that any JW who would read that, would have to wonder what the heck kind of logic that is.
But that is just my opinion. Some people just can't see the forest for the trees, so all you can do is your best and hope it will make a difference one day.
if there is someone whom is a long time jw, how do you bring him back into reality or is that possible?
how do you make them reflect that it is possible that they are wrong about the bible track society?
anything you say they alway twist it around anyways with their prepared answers.
Books I highly recommend:
Anything by Randy Watters (See free minds web site.)
By Steven Hassan: Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing The Bonds
By David Reed: Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse By Verse and How to Rescue Your Loved One From The Watchtower
By Ron Rhodes: Reasoning From The Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses
My personal favorite: By Wilbur Lingle--Approaching Jehovah's Witnesses In Love
.
somewhere in my head i recall someone saying that since there was no proof or record of them being baptised that the so-called (the jws word) "christians" who died in the lion's pit were therefore not of the 144,000!!!
how do the jws justify there not being 144,000 true christians from 33ce to 1900??
The book of Acts mentions at least 100,000 people saved, and that was only the beginning growth of Christianity. Estimates have it that there were at least 250,000 Jews in the early church, not counting thousands of Gentiles. Also there were 250,000 martyrs, who would surely be included in the 144,000. (In the WT book Finished Mystery, 1917, Charles Russell said there were 861,000 martyrs.)How could there possibly be any openings left when Charles Russell came on the scene, if this teaching of only 144,000 going to heaven is to be presumed true?
Just my thought on the subject.
could be anyone, osama bin laden, oj simpson, pat robertson, someone who personally hurt you or your family, anyone at all.
would you pull the trigger, throw the switch, etc, which would end someones life?
would it make a difference if no one would ever know, versus everyone knowing?
If I felt with absolute certainty that they were going to kill someone in my presence, I think I could do it. I would rather severely incapacitate them, but if there were no other choice, and it would prevent others from being killed, I would feel obligated to protect the innocent.
The most intolerable cruelty I can imagine involves perverts with children. I think I could be on the board to remove these people's sex organs, and although it would be a difficult job at first, I could get used to it. Just like a farmer castrating pigs. Snip-snip! :0)
i feel like i am getting bitter and that is onr thing i do not want to be...but this whole religion, god thing is gets to be too much... .
i do believe there is a creator, but have no idea what the purpose is.....i've tried the whole jesus thing, but really that doesn't make too much sence to me either....so where does that leave me???
in limbo....so i would rather just forget it all... .
YES!!! FORGET RELIGION! But, PLEASE, do not for get GOD. If you pay close attention to Jesus in the Bible, He was always anit-religion and pro-relationship. He always got on the Pharisees about their religious-ness. It was all rituals, rules, and regulations. Love on condition. Jesus blew a big fat hole in all their religious "stuff" and brought it all down to 2 commandments.
A really good book to read on this subject is by Greg Albrect called Bad News Religion. I think there is a website too. He used to be in the Armstrong religion. He basically lays it out. Religion is not what Jesus was all about. And he proves it through the Scriptures. (Not just paraphrasing a sentence, but by having you read the entire context.)
He made a statement that really touched me. He said "Do not give up on God, just because humans did such a bad job of representing Him". I thought that was very appropriately stated. If we paid more attention to the Bible and to what Jesus had to say, and less to what our human counterparts want to make Him in to, and what they would have us believe the Bible says according to them, then we all would be a lot better off.
I hope you can take a break from religion and get some mental rest. Prayer is good, but maybe you are not ready for that. One day, you'll find what God REALLY has for you. Keep me posted on your journey!
Whyizit
i have been reading his posts and although he claims to have just met the jws a couple of months ago, he "sounds" like a jw.
comments?
Hi, Spice Ant!
I, like you, had lots of questions about the blood policy. Never really received any good straight answers, though. Just a lot of Bible hopping and reading things out of context. Like Acts 15. It's talking about Jews and Gentiles in fellowship. It mentions specifically where salvation lies. Doesn't say a word about losing it or gaining depending on a belief about blood transfusions.
The WTS used to forbid organ transplants and vaccinations also. Now they are allowed. I asked my JW friend if she would let her child die rather than receive a blood transfusion. After going through a big rig-a-ma-roll about "how do you know it would save him?", etc... I gave this scenario: You son just sliced open an artery and has lost a massive amount of blood. There is no blood-less hospital nearby. The surgeon comes out and tells you, "we have the bleeding stopped, but without a transfusion to replace the blood that has been lost, he will NOT make it." What would you do? First of all, she said she would sacrifice her own resurrection and have the blood transfusion given. Then she back pedals and falls back on her non-JW husband--he would never let him die for lack of a blood transfusion, so that is a way out also. Hmmm....that doesn't sound like someone who is completely convinced that the blood policy is 100% correct.
Then I ask: "How about this one, your son needs a blood transfusion and he is 18 yrs old. He refuses. He dies. You are proud that he didn't go against Jehovah's wishes, however, you are going through enormous pain from the loss of your only child. 2 months later the WTS gets new light and blood transfusions are okay after all. How would you feel?" She asked me why I would ask that...."Because I just wondered how the people who let their kids die for a lack of vaccinations (in order to obey Jehovah), felt when the WTS decided vaccinations weren't bad after all? It was no longer considered disobedience to Jehovah. Do JWs get their kids vaccinated NOW? Yes! If the blood rule is changed, will they get blood transfusions? Did the Bible change back then? When people died from lack of vaccinations or organ transplants? Did Jehovah say an organ transplant was cannibalism, or DIDN'T HE? Or did some guy in the upper ranks of the WTS get it wrong and lots of people lost loved ones for nothing? That is all I am asking."
No response. Oh, well!!!
every once in awhile i will be talking to my jw friends and the subject of other religions will come up.
they love to take jabs at other religions, as most of you know.
i remember one time we were talking about a cult (not wts) and i mentioned that this guy i knew got kicked out for smoking a cigarette, eternal damnation loomed over his head, while this other guy received a very minor reprimand for screwing some other guy's wife.
Every once in awhile I will be talking to my JW friends and the subject of other religions will come up. They love to take jabs at other religions, as most of you know. I remember one time we were talking about a cult (not WTS) and I mentioned that this guy I knew got kicked out for smoking a cigarette, eternal damnation loomed over his head, while this other guy received a very minor reprimand for screwing some other guy's wife. Like it was no big deal! How crazy is that? (Jaws dropped! I knew I touched a nerve, without ever saying a word about the WTS.)
I was thinking that maybe I could use this same approach by clueing them in on some mind-control techniques that might give them a heads up on what they are doing and have had done to them. How would YOU tactfully and nonchalantly approach this subject and what specific mind control techniques would you find it most useful to mention?
for the first time in my life and it was memorable.
it was a relief to hear the bible being preached, the bible alone!!
i don't think any jw's can picture that.
Today I saw one of my JW friends and her mother. Her mother told me that I should listen to my JW friend. I didn't know what she was talking about. Then she said, "Listen as she tells you the "truth"." I looked at her kind of strange, I know, because I thought, "Why would I think she is going to lie to me?" Then it dawned on me, that is what JWs refer to as their religion. The "truth". Sometimes the language barrier catches me off guard.
I thought about it later, and if the subject should come up again, which I'm sure it will, I may say, "Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God? That it contains His truth exactly?" And if she says yes, then I will assure her that I do also, and no need to worry. I already have the "Truth." It doesn't matter if she believes I do or not. My salvation doesn't come from what she believes about me. It comes from the blood of Jesus. I've been washed in the blood of Jesus and I am saved. I cannot be shaken. Even with all of her "doom and gloom" talking. We are living on "borrowed time" speaches. How many people have lived and died hearing that preached. The end is near. Of course it is. But the Bible specifically tells us not to be fearful about it. We are not suppose to speculate about the exact timing of the end either. It could be today, it could be in 100 more years. It's not what we are to be focusing on. Scare tactics just do not go over well with me.
I'm happy that you had a good experience in church! We searched for a good Bible-preaching church. One that was not hung up on religious rituals and legalism. It took a few tries, but we found one. Preaching strictly from the Bible without any thing added. It is wonderful to be a part of it. The focus is on worship, not works. It has opened doors for many excellent programs. I used to dislike going to church. I would be so stressed over what to wear, etc... When the focus is on worship to Yahweh, it doesn't matter about the outside. T-shirts and jeans, or suit and tie. We all come together and it's all about HIM!
Thanks for sharing your experience and all the best to you!
In Christ,
Whyizit
i'm not a jw, nor have i ever been, so some of the things that my jw friends tell me just don't seem to make sense.
to avoid conflict in our friendship, sometimes i just let things slide, rather than argue.
i am, however, a bible-believing, non-denominational christian who reads and studies the bible frequently, and loves yahweh.. my jw friend just slipped yet another wt magazine in my door and it says that: "jesus christ began to rule as king of god's kingdom in 1914.
I'm not a JW, nor have I ever been, so some of the things that my JW friends tell me just don't seem to make sense. To avoid conflict in our friendship, sometimes I just let things slide, rather than argue.
I am, however, a Bible-believing, non-denominational Christian who reads and studies the Bible frequently, and loves Yahweh.
My JW friend just slipped yet another WT magazine in my door and it says that: "Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God's Kingdom in 1914." pg. 7 WT July 15, 2006 issue.
I have some WTS books that I aquired at auction. One of them is called PROPHECY. It states on page 65: "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D..This proof is specifically set out in the booklet entitled Our Lord's Return." That is a direct qoute.
It is also repeated in one of the other WTS books called The Harp Of God on pages 230-231.
This is my question:
Do JWs believe that Jesus came back in 1874, but did not begin ruling until 1914? Or are there two separate predictions of when exactly it was that Jesus returned?
If 1914 is the date they now believe as the second coming of Christ, since the earlier books state that Jesus returned in 1874, did God make this mistake, or did the WTS teach the wrong thing? To the best of my knowledge, the Bible has never changed, but it seems that the WTS has changed it's view on Christ's 2nd presence. I believe that God does not make mistakes. That leads me to this next question:
If the man who wrote that Jesus came back in 1874 was wrong, then I safely presume that he is guilty of misleading many, since this is clearly not what is being taught now. Since this man basically lied to many people who believed the 1874 date to be true, is it safe to assume that this man will NOT be part of the 144,000? Infact, wouldn't he be at serious risk of not being ressurrected at all? Because isn't this a false teaching - false prophecy? Didn't many JWs at that time believe this to be the absolute truth?
What happened to those who correctly presumed this to be a false teaching?
I know that there are several former JWs as well as active JWs on this site, and would just like to know their thoughts on this matter. Thanks for any insight you have to offer!
